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First year associate here who is so sick of supervising attorneys giving the most vague instructions and then getting pissed off and reaming me out for 1) asking questions and 2) obviously not doing the job they wanted. Needed to vent. Fuck this profession

We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice.

Ask more questions when you get the assignment.

Government.

i always ask lots of questions when i get assignments. some examples that you can use: "why am i still doing this? what is the point? why am i here? what is wrong with me?"

fats provolone wrote:i always ask lots of questions when i get assignments. some examples that you can use: "why am i still doing this? what is the point? why am i here? what is wrong with me?"

This

Anonymous User wrote:First year associate here who is so sick of supervising attorneys giving the most vague instructions and then getting pissed off and reaming me out for 1) asking questions and 2) obviously not doing the job they wanted. Needed to vent. Fuck this profession

Doesn't get much better. Get out while you can.

chimp wrote:We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice.

Oh shit, AI when'd you get your Gtown degree?!

Edit: Thank you. :')

Anonymous User wrote:First year associate here who is so sick of supervising attorneys giving the most vague instructions and then getting pissed off and reaming me out for 1) asking questions and 2) obviously not doing the job they wanted. Needed to vent. Fuck this profession

I'm a first year who feels the same way. Gotta get used to feeling like shit I guess.

AVBucks4239 wrote:Ask more questions when you get the assignment.

This is a dumb fucking generic response. Most assignments are given, at best, with a couple minutes of background and instruction. 99/100 times, a 1st year associate isn't going to know which questions to ask to avoid these type of problems. While asking more preliminary questions is always a good idea, this generic piece of advice is going to do very little to help OP.

OP: It sucks, but it is an unfortunate right of passage. Just give it some time and you'll (hopefully) start to have that happen less and less. While it sounds cliche, patience really is the only answer.

The key is to be assertive enough to ask the questions you need to ask, while at the same time showing that its all for the common goal of putting together the best work for all involved. Make clear that you are asking your extra questions at the onset so as to save the supervisor time and stress at the back end. If the person gets frustrated with that, then so be it. Your work product will be better and will be done more efficiently. And no one is going to argue with that.

Though I agree that, at the very beginning in your associate life, you won't even know what questions to ask in some cases. In those instances, you ask as things come up (to the extent its something you would even realize is an issue). Again, brush off that the person may be frustrated or perturbed since he/she is getting a better work product in the end.

kaiser wrote:The key is to be assertive enough to ask the questions you need to ask, while at the same time showing that its all for the common goal of putting together the best work for all involved. Make clear that you are asking your extra questions at the onset so as to save the supervisor time and stress at the back end. If the person gets frustrated with that, then so be it. Your work product will be better and will be done more efficiently. And no one is going to argue with that.

Though I agree that, at the very beginning in your associate life, you won't even know what questions to ask in some cases. In those instances, you ask as things come up (to the extent its something you would even realize is an issue). Again, brush off that the person may be frustrated or perturbed since he/she is getting a better work product in the end.

No, they're still getting shit work product, because I don't know wtf I'm doing. Plus now they're angry that they had to answer all those irrelevant questions.

Danger Zone wrote:

kaiser wrote:The key is to be assertive enough to ask the questions you need to ask, while at the same time showing that its all for the common goal of putting together the best work for all involved. Make clear that you are asking your extra questions at the onset so as to save the supervisor time and stress at the back end. If the person gets frustrated with that, then so be it. Your work product will be better and will be done more efficiently. And no one is going to argue with that.

Though I agree that, at the very beginning in your associate life, you won't even know what questions to ask in some cases. In those instances, you ask as things come up (to the extent its something you would even realize is an issue). Again, brush off that the person may be frustrated or perturbed since he/she is getting a better work product in the end.

No, they're still getting shit work product, because I don't know wtf I'm doing. Plus now they're angry that they had to answer all those irrelevant questions.

We all did shit work product at the beginning. Its a rite of passage for a 1st year associate to not have any clue what he/she is doing and to do the work poorly due to lack of background, context, etc. You learn by doing, so the first time will be garbage, and the next time will be better because you will learn from the past mistakes. The first time you do literally anything in the biglaw world, you are likely to screw it up, and thats not unexpected.

As for people getting angry at you asking questions, thats something you need to harden yourself to. They often quickly forget what its like to be a 1st year, and they often forget what you know and do not know. When you ask questions, make damn clear that you have never done it before, and that you aren't even sure what questions to ask. And if they aren't willing or able to share enough information to move you along, then you roll with it and just give it your best shot. LIke you said, the work product will be shit, but you get as much feedback as possible and learn from it. Just make sure to always keep a good attitude, stay engaged and involved, show enthusiasm, initiative, etc. That will go a long way toward counterbalancing any frustration you cause from asking what may seem like silly, time-wasting questions.

kaiser wrote:

Danger Zone wrote:

kaiser wrote:The key is to be assertive enough to ask the questions you need to ask, while at the same time showing that its all for the common goal of putting together the best work for all involved. Make clear that you are asking your extra questions at the onset so as to save the supervisor time and stress at the back end. If the person gets frustrated with that, then so be it. Your work product will be better and will be done more efficiently. And no one is going to argue with that.

Though I agree that, at the very beginning in your associate life, you won't even know what questions to ask in some cases. In those instances, you ask as things come up (to the extent its something you would even realize is an issue). Again, brush off that the person may be frustrated or perturbed since he/she is getting a better work product in the end.

No, they're still getting shit work product, because I don't know wtf I'm doing. Plus now they're angry that they had to answer all those irrelevant questions.

We all did shit work product at the beginning. Its a rite of passage for a 1st year associate to not have any clue what he/she is doing and to do the work poorly due to lack of background, context, etc. You learn by doing, so the first time will be garbage, and the next time will be better because you will learn from the past mistakes. The first time you do literally anything in the biglaw world, you are likely to screw it up, and thats not unexpected.

As for people getting angry at you asking questions, thats something you need to harden yourself to. They often quickly forget what its like to be a 1st year, and they often forget what you know and do not know. When you ask questions, make damn clear that you have never done it before, and that you aren't even sure what questions to ask. And if they aren't willing or able to share enough information to move you along, then you roll with it and just give it your best shot. LIke you said, the work product will be shit, but you get as much feedback as possible and learn from it. Just make sure to always keep a good attitude, stay engaged and involved, show enthusiasm, initiative, etc. That will go a long way toward counterbalancing any frustration you cause from asking what may seem like silly, time-wasting questions.

Longer post of what I was trying to get at. You need to ask when it's due, what exactly they want (do they want a research memo or for you to draft something they can copy paste into an agreement/brief?), etc. I also usually ask for a good starting point to research--they can usually point you to a section of the code or a secondary source on Lexis/in the library, or another file where they did something similar.

And if they're a dick, give it your best shot but don't get discouraged if you give them a heaping pile of shit.

I'm in corporate and don't know anything. It's not even like "Oh I've never written a brief before" it's like "Oh I've never seen a brief or read one or been shown one, actually I've never heard the word brief before"

.

Desert Fox wrote:To understand the heart of the midlevel, watch this scene of a midlevel at Plaszow, Goeth, and Hoss



Try to understand why you are being tasked with the assignment, not just the what. If you don't know why, you'll never know how/what because the midlevel will never give you enough information. The midlevel will always be pissed you missed something obvious.

Trying to compare practicing biglaw with the holocaust is taking it too far df

chimp wrote:We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice.

For the record, he was right. Iverson lacked height and the right build. His career was all a result of practice.

you should also appreciate the midlevel because it buffers you from the partner. if you think midlevels can be pains, dealing with partners sucks times infinity.

I keep fucking up too. Main thing I've learned so far is to be nice, and give them the flattery they deserve. A lot of these people haven't had a day off in months. If you waste their time asking irrelevant questions and turn in pure unadulterated shit, the least you can do is make them laugh.

Danger Zone wrote:I'm in corporate and don't know anything. It's not even like "Oh I've never written a brief before" it's like "Oh I've never seen a brief or read one or been shown one, actually I've never heard the word brief before"

What kind of assignments y'all get?

kaiser wrote:The key is to be assertive enough to ask the questions you need to ask, while at the same time showing that its all for the common goal of putting together the best work for all involved. Make clear that you are asking your extra questions at the onset so as to save the supervisor time and stress at the back end. If the person gets frustrated with that, then so be it. Your work product will be better and will be done more efficiently. And no one is going to argue with that.

Though I agree that, at the very beginning in your associate life, you won't even know what questions to ask in some cases. In those instances, you ask as things come up (to the extent its something you would even realize is an issue). Again, brush off that the person may be frustrated or perturbed since he/she is getting a better work product in the end.

Are you actually in practice? This is such odd advice for a few reasons, primarily that as a first year associate you are going to have no fucking clue which questions to ask.

Partner: Hey, I need you to research whether we have to move to compel arbitration prior to making an appearance.
Associate: Uh, yeah, ok, sure. Is there a particular time you need this by? (See, that is one question you can ask.)
Partner: Well, as soon as possible.
Associate: Sure thing, sir, and would you like coffee and a handjob too?
Partner: Get lost

(16 hours of research on arbitration later)
Associate: Shit, this is a jurisdictional question. I had no idea. Where would we file arbitration? Is there a contract? Is there a choice of law provision? I HAVE ALL THESE QUESTIONS FOR THE PARTNER AND I DIDN'T EVEN GIVE HIM A HANDJOB I'M SO WORTHLESS.

I'm having the same problem man. Some people are just better to work with than others, and I usually just try to go to them with my questions, even if it's not their assignment. Usually the nicer associates will be able to tell you if the project is really out of your depth, or if you are just missing something obvious or looking in the wrong place. It's often the same people who give me vague instructions and you kind of realize it's not their fault, they just are too busy or unaware to really appreciate how lost you are. If you are really bad they will stop asking you to do stuff for them and I think the problem solves itself. It kind of sucks if they are yelling at you for that sort of stuff but just remember you get paid a decent amount to basically know nothing and eat shit, so just grind it out and remember you can't really get fired unless you have a terrible attitude about it.

Anonymous User wrote:First year associate here who is so sick of supervising attorneys giving the most vague instructions and then getting pissed off and reaming me out for 1) asking questions and 2) obviously not doing the job they wanted. Needed to vent. Fuck this profession

Surprise! No one told you this when you were in law school, right? Kinda funny how that works.