Anyone worked at a city's Law Department post-grad? What's it like? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'll be starting at a big city's law department (not NYC, but a city with a population >1 million) in the coming weeks and legitimately have no idea what to expect. I know the specific practice area I'll be going into (it's kind of niche I guess but seems interesting), but otherwise don't really know anything except my salary and that I get a pension haha. Generally, do these types of jobs have high turnover? I definitely value stability, which I know traditionally comes with government jobs, but does that apply here? Plus given that I need 10 years of public interest work for PSLF, I sure hope it's stable! Are the hours at these jobs decent? And what kind of exit options are there? I'll be doing something that's litigation related; I figure biglaw is out (which is fine with me at this point), but is it even going to be possible for me to lateral to some kind of federal government job in a few years if I decide the city job isn't for me, or am I forever going to be stuck lateraling between various city agencies (again, not a huge problem, but I guess I like having options haha)?

I know this is all a bit generic (seeing as I'd rather not reveal my city or practice area), but any help would be great. I just feel a bit overwhelmed going into something like this completely blind (I didn't work there 2L summer). And if anyones curious, once I start working I don't mind sharing my thoughts on it so future people have an idea what its like. I've searched on here and haven't found much.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdotal, I know someone who went from NYC Law Department -> Clerkship -> Biglaw.

I imagine the perks of a federal government job would be nice though if you got the opportunity to lateral.

[Anonymous User]

That's interesting, thanks. Hadn't really considered a clerkship after being a few years out tbh, but I think it would definitely be a good way to get me into something else (even if its not biglaw, which I'm not really 100% sure I want... kinda loving the LRAP/PSLF combo haha).

And yeah, I have a bunch of friends who work non-attorney federal government jobs and I'm insanely jealous of them. Sure, you ain't gonna get rich doing it, but its definitely enough to live comfortably.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I'll probably post a full write-up in that "whats your day like" thread after another week or 2, but so far this job kicks ass. Pretty much 9-5 with rare days where you'll need to stay another hour or 2, really kind colleagues, interesting enough (and usually substantive) work. Outside of the mediocre pay (which is alleviated to an extent by LRAP+IBR) and a little government red tape (3 days to get my email account setup? really? lol), I really couldn't ask for anything more.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I'll probably post a full write-up in that "whats your day like" thread after another week or 2, but so far this job kicks ass. Pretty much 9-5 with rare days where you'll need to stay another hour or 2, really kind colleagues, interesting enough (and usually substantive) work. Outside of the mediocre pay (which is alleviated to an extent by LRAP+IBR) and a little government red tape (3 days to get my email account setup? really? lol), I really couldn't ask for anything more.

Just curious what is your salary range? And what do salary increases like?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I'll probably post a full write-up in that "whats your day like" thread after another week or 2, but so far this job kicks ass. Pretty much 9-5 with rare days where you'll need to stay another hour or 2, really kind colleagues, interesting enough (and usually substantive) work. Outside of the mediocre pay (which is alleviated to an extent by LRAP+IBR) and a little government red tape (3 days to get my email account setup? really? lol), I really couldn't ask for anything more.

Just curious what is your salary range? And what do salary increases like?

Entry level positions (someone right out of law school, lateral who doesn't have enough experience for a supervisory position, etc.) start in the 50k-60k range. If you have more lateral experience and get hired into a supervisory role, you'd start at 80k or so (this varies a lot depending on the exact position; could be as high as around $100k I think). If you're really curious, I think this information is public for every city. Not 100% sure on salary increases but I think its $3k-$4k every 2 years (not every year, I think, barring unusual circumstances), and promotions are pretty random (basically whenever a spot opens up). So yeah, nothing special in pure numbers, BUT the benefits are amazing. <$100 a month and I get amazing health/dental/vision, I'll have a pension, plenty of paid time off (that you can actually use), LRAP/PSLF, etc.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I'll probably post a full write-up in that "whats your day like" thread after another week or 2, but so far this job kicks ass. Pretty much 9-5 with rare days where you'll need to stay another hour or 2, really kind colleagues, interesting enough (and usually substantive) work. Outside of the mediocre pay (which is alleviated to an extent by LRAP+IBR) and a little government red tape (3 days to get my email account setup? really? lol), I really couldn't ask for anything more.

Just curious what is your salary range? And what do salary increases like?

Entry level positions (someone right out of law school, lateral who doesn't have enough experience for a supervisory position, etc.) start in the 50k-60k range. If you have more lateral experience and get hired into a supervisory role, you'd start at 80k or so (this varies a lot depending on the exact position; could be as high as around $100k I think). If you're really curious, I think this information is public for every city. Not 100% sure on salary increases but I think its $3k-$4k every 2 years (not every year, I think, barring unusual circumstances), and promotions are pretty random (basically whenever a spot opens up). So yeah, nothing special in pure numbers, BUT the benefits are amazing. <$100 a month and I get amazing health/dental/vision, I'll have a pension, plenty of paid time off (that you can actually use), LRAP/PSLF, etc.

Is this in a city where 50-60k + LRAP/PSLF etc allow you to live comfortably (CoLwise) if not lavishly?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. I'll probably post a full write-up in that "whats your day like" thread after another week or 2, but so far this job kicks ass. Pretty much 9-5 with rare days where you'll need to stay another hour or 2, really kind colleagues, interesting enough (and usually substantive) work. Outside of the mediocre pay (which is alleviated to an extent by LRAP+IBR) and a little government red tape (3 days to get my email account setup? really? lol), I really couldn't ask for anything more.

Just curious what is your salary range? And what do salary increases like?

Entry level positions (someone right out of law school, lateral who doesn't have enough experience for a supervisory position, etc.) start in the 50k-60k range. If you have more lateral experience and get hired into a supervisory role, you'd start at 80k or so (this varies a lot depending on the exact position; could be as high as around $100k I think). If you're really curious, I think this information is public for every city. Not 100% sure on salary increases but I think its $3k-$4k every 2 years (not every year, I think, barring unusual circumstances), and promotions are pretty random (basically whenever a spot opens up). So yeah, nothing special in pure numbers, BUT the benefits are amazing. <$100 a month and I get amazing health/dental/vision, I'll have a pension, plenty of paid time off (that you can actually use), LRAP/PSLF, etc.

Is this in a city where 50-60k + LRAP/PSLF etc allow you to live comfortably (CoLwise) if not lavishly?

Just from googling it seems that's about the salary range for most big city law departments outside of NYC (who I think start at about 65k). So it kind of depends on your exact situation (DC or Boston will be different from Baltimore or Philadelphia, for example), but I'm happy with it. Is it Biglaw money, hell no. But it's definitely not Biglaw hours, and like I said the benefits add a lot of value to it. Tbh I think your personal perspective makes a big difference. I'm not really close friends with anyone in Biglaw while this is around the salary range of my non law friends, so I kind of knew what to expect.

[Anonymous User]

I've worked in both City and County law departments since I graduated a few years back (only full time attorney jobs I've had). City paid an entry entry level salary of 68K and the County pays an entry level of 75K (Both jobs in the same location--a secondary market). Feel free to ask questions.

[pleadthafif]

Post removed...

[Anonymous User]

RE: Pleadthefifth, I worked as a fellow for the City Law Department post graduation for one year. I never worked for them during my law school years. After the year was up I applied to the County Law Department and was hired there. I never actually worked as a salaried attorney for the City department, but I was given the entry level hiring info in regards to salary etc.

Let me say this in regards to QOL: it's going to almost completely depend on who your County/City Attorney is. Most probably won't expect anything absurd. But some do.

[Magic Hat]

I started my career in a city law department. I am now a 4th/5th year mid law associate.

My job was extremely political. When I left for private practice a 4th year who had been there since graduating was fired because he was in the wrong party.

Fortunately I was in the right party but that meant I was expected to do petitions, walk, and on occasion go pull campaign signs at midnight. That being said, those political connections have ripened and have benefitted me in private practice.

One small anecdote. In November of 2013 I went into my bosses office to let him know I accepted another offer and to give notice. He responded by telling me that I did a great job during the recent election and that he authorized me for a 25 percent raise. Never mind the multiple lower court decisions I had reversed on appeal or bonds I closed, my significant raise was the result of how hard I worked for the party, not how hard I worked in the office.

Other than that I strongly recommend it as a solid position to start your career with.

[Anonymous User]

How competitive are jobs like that? I was looking into a city attorney's office thing. It's a decent size city, I think the office has between 40-50 attorneys. Starting salary is in the 50's and I go to the best LS in the area. I struck out during OCI but will be pretty happy if I can get a job here. Pay isn't great but from what I've heard advancement is very doable and the hours/benefits are tough to beat. Any idea how much of a fight I'm in for to have a shot here?

[Anonymous User]

I started my career in a city law department. I am now a 4th/5th year mid law associate.

My job was extremely political. When I left for private practice a 4th year who had been there since graduating was fired because he was in the wrong party.

Fortunately I was in the right party but that meant I was expected to do petitions, walk, and on occasion go pull campaign signs at midnight. That being said, those political connections have ripened and have benefitted me in private practice.

One small anecdote. In November of 2013 I went into my bosses office to let him know I accepted another offer and to give notice. He responded by telling me that I did a great job during the recent election and that he authorized me for a 25 percent raise. Never mind the multiple lower court decisions I had reversed on appeal or bonds I closed, my significant raise was the result of how hard I worked for the party, not how hard I worked in the office.

Other than that I strongly recommend it as a solid position to start your career with.

I'm the OP, and while I'm still new at my place, that just seems bizarre and so unlike what I've experienced so far haha. Weird.

How competitive are jobs like that? I was looking into a city attorney's office thing. It's a decent size city, I think the office has between 40-50 attorneys. Starting salary is in the 50's and I go to the best LS in the area. I struck out during OCI but will be pretty happy if I can get a job here. Pay isn't great but from what I've heard advancement is very doable and the hours/benefits are tough to beat. Any idea how much of a fight I'm in for to have a shot here?

With only 40-50 attorneys, it's likely going to be really hard to get a job there. I can't imagine they would hire more than 1 or 2 attorneys for entry level positions (which will also be open to applications from experienced attorneys, most likely) every year, and even then they'll almost certainly be hiring someone for a specific practice, and you'd better have experience in that practice area or you'll lose out to the one who does.

Edit: My advice would be to start volunteering/interning/whatevering there ASAP. I've noticed at my law department they seem to hire a fair amount of people who had volunteered there for 6 months or more (sometimes even a year) either during 3L or after passing the bar exam.

[Anonymous User]

County Attorney who has only worked for City and County Law Departments since graduating a few years ago from earlier responding.

That political experience post above isn't like anything I've ever heard before. I don't believe that the vast majority of law departments will work that way. In fact, in the one I'm in we try to steer as clear of all that as possible. I think this is especially unlikely with county law departments.

As far as getting these jobs. They're like pretty much all non biglaw, in house counsel, non big fed etc. type jobs. Getting hired just comes down to timing, interviewing, connections, and above all else--luck. I wouldn't stress over your grades. While that's everything for the typical TLS type job, for the more typical law job it's just not that big of a concern. I had atrocious grades myself and it was never an issue (though I did attend a top 14 school).