deleted Forum

[BrokenMouse]

delete

[Nebby]

Uh, the attorney won't think you're a prick. They'll appreciate you for correcting the issue. If not, then they're pricks and you can't do anything about that. Second, so long as you don't walk up to him in the hallway and say, "COME AT ME BRO U SUCK AT DA LAWL LOLOL" then you'll be alright.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Yes, quite often in fact. But the time to do it is BEFORE you file the brief.

Not clear from your story but it kinda sounds like you walked into your boss's office and asked him why he fucked up, once it was too late to fix? Probably don't do that.

[Nebby]

I feel like shit right now cuz as a post-grad law clerk i had to correct my attorney supervisor on some basic but important 1L law. In this one case the opposition pointed out the out-dated citation my boss used.

I went to go ask him why x y and z cases werent used and instead the citation in question was used (shit we learned in 1L) and he said he simply copy pasta that portion. I explained to him the rule and that it has changed some years ago... Upon his suggestion I sent him a law review on this new rule. Now I realize he will think im a prick for pointing it out and appearing to school him. I feel bad because the opposition already pointed it out in their motion and maybe i should have just left it at that. Fuark what do? How do I stay below the radar and appear humble?

Wait. Was this with regard to something that was already filed?

[Anonymous User]

So he/she used the wrong 12(b)6 standard?

[Anonymous User]

I have interned for a sitting judge and corrected him on legal issues. This is what you are hired for, no one wants to submit bad legal arguments, so he'll appreciate you for helping him do better in cases going forward, or at least he should.

Obviously this all depends in how you phrased and communicated what was wrong. If you said "Hey why didn't you use these cases? Did you not know these really basic issues" vs. "Hey so I noticed that this suggestion used some out of date law, here's a law review article about it, etc."

[BrokenMouse]

lol

[Nebby]

I feel like shit right now cuz as a post-grad law clerk i had to correct my attorney supervisor on some basic but important 1L law. In this one case the opposition pointed out the out-dated citation my boss used.

I went to go ask him why x y and z cases werent used and instead the citation in question was used (shit we learned in 1L) and he said he simply copy pasta that portion. I explained to him the rule and that it has changed some years ago... Upon his suggestion I sent him a law review on this new rule. Now I realize he will think im a prick for pointing it out and appearing to school him. I feel bad because the opposition already pointed it out in their motion and maybe i should have just left it at that. Fuark what do? How do I stay below the radar and appear humble?

Wait. Was this with regard to something that was already filed?

Yes it was already filed and replied to. but it is an ongoing case. I first went to ask him wtf that was cuz i thought i had mis-learned some big shit in law school and quickly realized it wasnt me who was confused.

Yeah, in the future, you probably shouldn't do that if it's already filed.
"Yo, BAWS. What the fuck is this SHIT? EH? You think you running a puppy-mill here? Naw, this is a law job. We got ESQUIRE after our names."

[Desert Fox]

[fauxpsych]

Not so much law, but in my 1L summer my boss gave me a sample brief to work from and I just couldn't stop myself from saying "Uh-oh, passive voice."

Ended up stacking boxes the rest of the day.

[cron1834]

Not so much law, but in my 1L summer my boss gave me a sample brief to work from and I just couldn't stop myself from saying "Uh-oh, passive voice."

Ended up stacking boxes the rest of the day.

You deserved it, unlike OP.

[Anonymous User]

It's something that has to be done very carefully but usually has to be done. When it happens I always try to be as deferential as possible in bringing the error to their attention. One time my boss told me I hadn't done something correctly that I in fact had and I was pretty sure they had just missed it when going over the work quickly. The way I approached it (and this is generally a good strategy) is to ask them to give it another look because they're giving answer A but you think it's answer B for X and Y reasons, but you acknowledge that you might be wrong (even though you know you're not). Hopefully if you explained your reasoning properly, it will be obvious to your boss that they were wrong.

It sounds like you basically did what you should have done, but a lot of it is in how you ask the questions and your general tone. Compare:

"I had a question about this citation. I saw in this law review that it was supposed to be X and I noticed that the opposition mentioned it in their brief as well. What do you think, is that the way we're supposed to do it?"

VERSUS

"I found an error in your citation. Here's a law review article about why the way you did it is wrong and it should have been X. I also see the opposition mentioned it in their brief."

You absolutely want to avoid setting it up as a competition between who is right or otherwise causing the person to lose face in any way. It's a little unfortunate that you have to tip-toe around some people's egos but that's life unless you know for sure that they'll be fine with a direct correction. It's also just a kinder way of pointing out an error.

[CanadianWolf]

Law review articles are not legal precedent. I understand that they can be helpful as an introduction to one's legal research, but only as an introduction. It would be nice to know if this was a procedural matter or a point of substantive law. (I ask because it seems odd to state that this was something that you learned during your first year of law school.)

OP: Is this a small firm ? What types of cases do you handle ? Does the firm handle general matters or specialize ?

With respect to your question, it's how you handle the situation. And, to a large extent, that depends upon the personalities & positions of those involved.

[BrokenMouse]

goof

[Anonymous User]

after a review of the OP's posts in this thread I conclude as follows:
-he is imprecise and probably not a good lawyer ("writing class certification"? you mean a motion for class cert, or an opposition?)
-he thinks this is his blog
-he so poorly described the initial question that no one is clear on what happened

nevertheless, here's my advice for the OP: if you found something amiss with the work product, as an associate, it's your job to understand it AS BEST YOU CAN before going to the partner to discuss it. you mentioned that you noticed something was wrong and went to the partner to ask about it. rather than doing that, it's better to first notice, then deeply consider what happened. this often resolves and you don't have to go to the partner (i.e., you're doing your job, which is to take work off the partner's plate). in this instance, it looks like you still would have had to go to the partner, but if you'd considered it for a bit longer you would have realized that he did make a mistake and that you need to alert him to that. then you can consider the best way to do that without sounding like a dick. there are plenty of good ideas of how to do that in this thread. mine would be something like, "I think plaintiffs actually may be right on this point; my understanding is that case X, not case Y, applies here. I recommend we [do this, that, and the other] to resolve this."

[johndhi]

accidentally did anon for the above post ("I conclude as follows" one)

[rpupkin]

Is BrokenMouse a post-grad version of DaRascal?

[SFSpartan]

and

just now

My boss missed his deadline for opposing MSJ...

i dont even........

And you didn't remind him because....? To be clear, you both missed the deadline. Part of your job as a junior associate in small/midlaw is to make your bosses look good. If you need to help manage their lives/workflow, so be it. If your boss is super disorganized, not deadline driven, etc., it's sort of on you to come up with processes to stop the firm from missing deadlines, reciting law incorrectly, etc.

[BrokenMouse]

goof

[cron1834]

Is BrokenMouse a post-grad version of DaRascal?

[SFSpartan]

and

just now

My boss missed his deadline for opposing MSJ...

i dont even........

And you didn't remind him because....? To be clear, you both missed the deadline. Part of your job as a junior associate in small/midlaw is to make your bosses look good. If you need to help manage their lives/workflow, so be it. If your boss is super disorganized, not deadline driven, etc., it's sort of on you to come up with processes to stop the firm from missing deadlines, reciting law incorrectly, etc.

brah that case was filed before i got here. this is my first week. im not a junior associate. im a bar-pending law clerk making $20 bucks an hour in LOS ANGELES <---- wtf. the only equally underpaid paralegal fresh out of school and the attorney are in charge of calendaring. i dont even have access to the calendar. i was just doing my work competently stylin... don't hate. this is what they get for hiring brand new law clerks and paralegals tryin 2 save on cost... srs


this whole 1-week experience so far has been...

Ok, so this specific instance wasn't your fault. But you should still probably work with the paralegal and your boss (assuming there is not another attorney here) to make sure shit like that doesn't happen again. Being valuable, even if an administrative way, is a good way to demonstrate value and end up with a permanent job.

Also, this:

Is BrokenMouse a post-grad version of DaRascal?