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BumpAnonymous User wrote:Bump
You're not going to get an answer that you seem to expect. These firms are not biglaw like the big NY or Boston firms. Starting salary for a lot of these places is around $75k; other firms will be higher or lower. Raises will depend on the firm. Bonuses will depend on the firm. Hours will depend on the firm.Anonymous User wrote:BumpAnonymous User wrote:Bump
This is actually really helpful. Any knowledge of firm salaries as you get into the 3-4 year range?Anonymous User wrote:You're not going to get an answer that you seem to expect. These firms are not biglaw like the big NY or Boston firms. Starting salary for a lot of these places is around $75k; other firms will be higher or lower. Raises will depend on the firm. Bonuses will depend on the firm. Hours will depend on the firm.Anonymous User wrote:BumpAnonymous User wrote:Bump
For reference: I am going to a Northern New England firm. Starting salary is $76k. Bonus typically ranges between $2k and $12k. Hours "requirement" is 1500, but not a hard requirement. SA class was 3, but not 100% offer. Fit is way more important at these mid-sized firms than it is for big law. Expectation is partnership in 7 years--not up and out.
If you want these answers, or you're interested in working at one of these firms, reach out to young associates at the firms. You're going to need to do that anyway to get a job. Hiring at these firms is not like big law where they're only looking at the numbers on the resume.
Do you know which firms start at 95?Anonymous User wrote:I'm a first year at a small firm outside if town. $75k with a healthy bonus based on realized fees. There are a few larger firms that will start around 95 and up to 120 by 3-4; but these positions are very competitive and few.
I'm not the quoted anon.Anonymous User wrote:Do you know which firms start at 95?Anonymous User wrote:I'm a first year at a small firm outside if town. $75k with a healthy bonus based on realized fees. There are a few larger firms that will start around 95 and up to 120 by 3-4; but these positions are very competitive and few.
I did some digging around a while ago and found some webpages that said Bernstein's and Pierce Atwood's PPP was around 550k, and I've had that figure backed up by a few friends currently in LS in the region. I'm not sure how exactly the PPP is divided among the partners, but I'd imagine a new partner could pull in ~250k. It's generally an 8 year partner track for Portland firms so that's a healthy salary in your mid thirties with plenty of room to grow. Plus, that money goes far in Maine, especially if you live 20 mins outside of Portland.Anonymous User wrote:I'm not the quoted anon.Anonymous User wrote:Do you know which firms start at 95?Anonymous User wrote:I'm a first year at a small firm outside if town. $75k with a healthy bonus based on realized fees. There are a few larger firms that will start around 95 and up to 120 by 3-4; but these positions are very competitive and few.
I know last year Bernstein started at 82k. They said so on their recruiting brochure. I hear that Drummond Woodsum is about the same (a friend summered there). I would assume that Verril Dana and Preti Flaherty are similar, I would be surprised if they are starting people 13k above Bernstein. I get the sense that people in the area regard those firms as being fairly comparable in terms of prestige, size, and clientele. Maybe Pierce Atwood starts in the 90s, as it is the only firm that is significantly bigger than the others (140 or so attorneys versus about 100 for the others) and has some big clients. But that is just pure speculation on my part.
I'd love to get some info, even if just anecdotal, about what people make a few years in at these firms or what partners are pulling in (i'm assuming it varies widely, but it would be fun to hear some anecdotes)
I think in most local firms it is expected that you will make partner if you stick it out. Many of these firms have 2 or 3 partners for every associate. Seems like associates are typically making partner 7-8 years in. I would agree that most of the lawyers that I talk to seem to generally enjoy their job and their life. Northern new england states have small bars and its hard to get away with being a jerk. This is in stark contrast to some of the lawyers (some of them very very successful) I talk to from Boston/NYC that seem to be completely miserable and/or are complete dicks.Anonymous User wrote:This is all super helpful. Do you know if making partner is much more possible at these types of firms? I have never really thought about partnership before since I work in NYC big law (and honestly that life is miserable), but the partners I met in Maine all seemed pretty happy. Is partnership one of those things that is actually attainable at these types of firms?
The bolded is why I am looking to move. Literally had the asshole attorney at my firm last week mention that "being nice" is not a pre-req for success and it made me want to vomit considering what an asshole he is. I think I could enjoy being an attorney, I just can't take the miserable quality of life and the intense people I work with. I'm an NYC 3rd year and i'm definitely in the miserable camp, to the point where i've job hopped a few times to try and find the right fit, but I just don't think there is one in New York, every where is intense, every where work comes before life and for all that hard work, you get a shitty one-bedroom apartment. The job has given me anxiety that I never had and think moving up to NH/Maine with my fiance could be the change we need to really start enjoying life more and for me to enjoy practicing.Anonymous User wrote:I think in most local firms it is expected that you will make partner if you stick it out. Many of these firms have 2 or 3 partners for every associate. Seems like associates are typically making partner 7-8 years in. I would agree that most of the lawyers that I talk to seem to generally enjoy their job and their life. Northern new england states have small bars and its hard to get away with being a jerk. This is in stark contrast to some of the lawyers (some of them very very successful) I talk to from Boston/NYC that seem to be completely miserable and/or are complete dicks.Anonymous User wrote:This is all super helpful. Do you know if making partner is much more possible at these types of firms? I have never really thought about partnership before since I work in NYC big law (and honestly that life is miserable), but the partners I met in Maine all seemed pretty happy. Is partnership one of those things that is actually attainable at these types of firms?
I'm a law student who is originally from Maine/NH. From what I have gathered so far, most firms seem to expect 1500-1800 hours. I've gone to meetings/ networking events at a handful of firms and most of the offices were empty by 5:30-6. In terms of face time/availability on weekends, I'm not sure. It will probably vary depending on firm and practice group.Anonymous User wrote:The bolded is why I am looking to move. Literally had the asshole attorney at my firm last week mention that "being nice" is not a pre-req for success and it made me want to vomit considering what an asshole he is. I think I could enjoy being an attorney, I just can't take the miserable quality of life and the intense people I work with. I'm an NYC 3rd year and i'm definitely in the miserable camp, to the point where i've job hopped a few times to try and find the right fit, but I just don't think there is one in New York, every where is intense, every where work comes before life and for all that hard work, you get a shitty one-bedroom apartment. The job has given me anxiety that I never had and think moving up to NH/Maine with my fiance could be the change we need to really start enjoying life more and for me to enjoy practicing.Anonymous User wrote:I think in most local firms it is expected that you will make partner if you stick it out. Many of these firms have 2 or 3 partners for every associate. Seems like associates are typically making partner 7-8 years in. I would agree that most of the lawyers that I talk to seem to generally enjoy their job and their life. Northern new england states have small bars and its hard to get away with being a jerk. This is in stark contrast to some of the lawyers (some of them very very successful) I talk to from Boston/NYC that seem to be completely miserable and/or are complete dicks.Anonymous User wrote:This is all super helpful. Do you know if making partner is much more possible at these types of firms? I have never really thought about partnership before since I work in NYC big law (and honestly that life is miserable), but the partners I met in Maine all seemed pretty happy. Is partnership one of those things that is actually attainable at these types of firms?
In your experience and from hearing about others, what are typical hours like at these firms? The sense I get is that 8:30 - 5:30 is pretty typical, with remote work completely ok as well if you need to get stuff done at home after hours. One firm I talked to in Portland pretty much told me they don't respond to weekend emails unless its urgent (closing coming up or big-time client), which is amazing, but I'm sure it doesn't play the same way at a Pierce Atwood, Verrill Dana or Bernstein Shur type of place. Thanks for all the responses on this thread, its been helpful considering I am still in interview process at a few firms and can't ask these types of questions to associates yet.
I was googling and came across this. It is specifically for New Hampshire, but I suspect the numbers in Maine are comparable. https://www.nhbar.org/publications/Econ ... lained.aspAnonymous User wrote:The bolded is why I am looking to move. Literally had the asshole attorney at my firm last week mention that "being nice" is not a pre-req for success and it made me want to vomit considering what an asshole he is. I think I could enjoy being an attorney, I just can't take the miserable quality of life and the intense people I work with. I'm an NYC 3rd year and i'm definitely in the miserable camp, to the point where i've job hopped a few times to try and find the right fit, but I just don't think there is one in New York, every where is intense, every where work comes before life and for all that hard work, you get a shitty one-bedroom apartment. The job has given me anxiety that I never had and think moving up to NH/Maine with my fiance could be the change we need to really start enjoying life more and for me to enjoy practicing.Anonymous User wrote:I think in most local firms it is expected that you will make partner if you stick it out. Many of these firms have 2 or 3 partners for every associate. Seems like associates are typically making partner 7-8 years in. I would agree that most of the lawyers that I talk to seem to generally enjoy their job and their life. Northern new england states have small bars and its hard to get away with being a jerk. This is in stark contrast to some of the lawyers (some of them very very successful) I talk to from Boston/NYC that seem to be completely miserable and/or are complete dicks.Anonymous User wrote:This is all super helpful. Do you know if making partner is much more possible at these types of firms? I have never really thought about partnership before since I work in NYC big law (and honestly that life is miserable), but the partners I met in Maine all seemed pretty happy. Is partnership one of those things that is actually attainable at these types of firms?
In your experience and from hearing about others, what are typical hours like at these firms? The sense I get is that 8:30 - 5:30 is pretty typical, with remote work completely ok as well if you need to get stuff done at home after hours. One firm I talked to in Portland pretty much told me they don't respond to weekend emails unless its urgent (closing coming up or big-time client), which is amazing, but I'm sure it doesn't play the same way at a Pierce Atwood, Verrill Dana or Bernstein Shur type of place. Thanks for all the responses on this thread, its been helpful considering I am still in interview process at a few firms and can't ask these types of questions to associates yet.
Happy 4/20 broAnonymous User wrote:Do people know if these firms (i.e. Pierce Atwood,Verrill Dana, Bernstein Shur, etc.) drug test before bringing people on as laterals or as new hires? I would assume the answer is no, but want to make sure.
I can't speak to any of these firms specifically, or even this market, but I would caution against assuming it is no. I would actually assume yes for insurance/malpractice purposes. I worked for a very regional firm and was drug tested because a major bank client had it in place to insure they weren't exposing themselves to liability by being represented by some coked-up associate.Anonymous User wrote:Do people know if these firms (i.e. Pierce Atwood,Verrill Dana, Bernstein Shur, etc.) drug test before bringing people on as laterals or as new hires? I would assume the answer is no, but want to make sure.
Anonymous User wrote:Happy 4/20 broAnonymous User wrote:Do people know if these firms (i.e. Pierce Atwood,Verrill Dana, Bernstein Shur, etc.) drug test before bringing people on as laterals or as new hires? I would assume the answer is no, but want to make sure.
wtf out that spot i would not work somewhere that drug tested associatesAnonymous User wrote:I can't speak to any of these firms specifically, or even this market, but I would caution against assuming it is no. I would actually assume yes for insurance/malpractice purposes. I worked for a very regional firm and was drug tested because a major bank client had it in place to insure they weren't exposing themselves to liability by being represented by some coked-up associate.Anonymous User wrote:Do people know if these firms (i.e. Pierce Atwood,Verrill Dana, Bernstein Shur, etc.) drug test before bringing people on as laterals or as new hires? I would assume the answer is no, but want to make sure.
I'd add that for the typical associate, actual COL in Queens/Brooklyn isn't that much lower than Manhattan; it's not like there are oodles of dumb associates who aren't willing to live in LIC or Williamsburg; COL there is comparable to living in Manhattan, though you'd get a bit more space for your money (same for the convenient parts of JC and Hoboken, FWIW). The COL figures for Queens/Brooklyn are deceptively low because they include "bad" and inconvenient parts of Queens/Brooklyn that haven't gentrified at all, like Canarsie and East New York and South Jamaica.