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I am currently working as a public defender in a small town (I interned at a much larger, more big city office in law school). I have been at my office for about two years, and I love my job. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the job itself or advice on how to get a full time job as a PD.

Difference in pay between big city PD & small town PD ?

Desert Fox wrote:If you know someone murdered or rape someone. For sure. Do you work less hard? You know for justice's sake.

Short answer: No

Long answer: It's not my job to decide on guilt/innocence and figure out how to handle my case based on that. I don't even always ask my clients about that because it's honestly not really relevant most of the time, and they don't always tell me the truth anyway. I look at the evidence and how solid the state's case is, advise my client based on that, and go from there. Usually, it works out that there is more solid evidence on guilty people than someone who is likely innocent, but that's not always the case. When the state has a great case, a guilty plea generally makes the most sense because punishment is almost always worse after you lose at trial. When I have a good defense, the state is more likely to dismiss the case/reduce the charges/recommend a better sentence the closer we get to trial. However, people don't always act in their best interest. And if someone is adamant that he or she wants a trial, I will put in a ton of work regardless of how good or bad the state's case is.

CanadianWolf wrote:Difference in pay between big city PD & small town PD ?

The pay is definitely higher in the bigger offices, but the cost of living is also a lot higher in big cities. So, it's usually only an issue if you want to live in a city while commuting to a small town for work.

Thank you for your work. I mean that sincerely.

What would your advice be to a 1L looking to work as a PD after graduation?

What would you recommend to a 2L who is hoping to get into PD work but has no previous experience in indigent defense/criminal litigation? Basically my resume indicates that I want to a very specific, different type of law (through previous work experience and 1L summer internship). Is there any hope? Thank you!!

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Thanks for doing this. How important would you say grades are in terms of getting a job as a PD? How about extracurriculars like a journal, moot court, or mock trial?

Anonymous User wrote:What would your advice be to a 1L looking to work as a PD after graduation?

Right now, I'd recommend getting involved in whatever public interest or criminal law clubs/events/volunteer opportunities you have at your school. No one is going to expect you to intern anywhere as a 1L, but it's a good idea to start getting involved and meeting people. You should definitely try to intern at a PD office your 1L summer, and I think it's a good idea to always intern or volunteer somewhere every semester after that. PD offices like dedication, so it's a good idea to start showing that as soon as possible.

This is more advice for your 2L and 3L years, but I'd suggest planning your classes and schedule carefully. I liked to only have school a few days per week so I'd be able to spend more time at my internships. And I know it's the conventional wisdom on this board that the classes you take don't matter, but I really think they do if you want to be a PD. Take every criminal procedure and evidence class you can, and try to take practical classes (motions workshop/trial advocacy/direct and cross examination...) that get you on your feet.

Good luck!

Anonymous User wrote:What would you recommend to a 2L who is hoping to get into PD work but has no previous experience in indigent defense/criminal litigation? Basically my resume indicates that I want to a very specific, different type of law (through previous work experience and 1L summer internship). Is there any hope? Thank you!!

It's absolutely not too late! Just like I told the last poster, start getting involved now. Join the clubs now, and definitely get an internship next semester. You'll get the most out of any internship if you can devote at least two full days per week at the office. This is important because you'll get more interesting things to do if you'll be there all day. I didn't realize this for my first PD internship, and I mostly got stuck doing research while some of my fellow interns went to court all the time with his supervisors and helped talk to clients. It was just harder for me to meet them there when they were already busy and not really in the mood to delegate work.

Also, like I recommended to the previous poster, take as many practical, criminal procedure, and evidence classes as you can. I actually still reference my outlines sometimes. I had no idea they'd end up being so helpful.

Do you have a student practice act in your state? If so, you should try to intern somewhere your 2L summer and 3L year that actually lets their interns talk in court. I was lucky that the office I interned at pretty much let us do everything. I started out doing preliminary hearings, bond hearings, and pleas, and I eventually ended up arguing (and winning!) a motion to suppress and second chairing a few trials. This experience gave me a lot to talk about when I was interviewing for a full time position after law school. But not all offices let their interns do all that much, so that's definitely something to look into when deciding where to intern.

What would you say the most difficult aspect of your job is? Also, thanks for taking the time to do this.

chalky wrote:Do you feel any kind of indirect responsibility when you secure a not guilty verdict for your defendant and they commit more crimes?

Not at all. I sometimes feel like a hamster running in place on a wheel, but I'd never feel responsible for any new crimes. If the state doesn't have enough evidence on one case, my client certainly shouldn't be punished for that, no matter what may happen in the future.

Anonymous User wrote:What would you say the most difficult aspect of your job is? Also, thanks for taking the time to do this.

I have too many cases and too few resources. It's impossible to do everything I want to on every case (for either time or funding reasons), which really sucks.

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for doing this. How important would you say grades are in terms of getting a job as a PD? How about extracurriculars like a journal, moot court, or mock trial?

Also curious about this.

uygup12 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for doing this. How important would you say grades are in terms of getting a job as a PD? How about extracurriculars like a journal, moot court, or mock trial?

Also curious about this.

It's hard to say, because every office has different hiring preferences. Good grades will never hurt, but I don't think they help as much as they would in other fields. As for the other stuff, it's hard to say because I didn't do any of it. I focused on internships instead. I can see how it could be helpful. I'd just recommend making the time to intern too because, in my opinion, nothing beats actual experience.

Anonymous User wrote:

chalky wrote:Do you feel any kind of indirect responsibility when you secure a not guilty verdict for your defendant and they commit more crimes?

Not at all. I sometimes feel like a hamster running in place on a wheel, but I'd never feel responsible for any new crimes. If the state doesn't have enough evidence on one case, my client certainly shouldn't be punished for that, no matter what may happen in the future.

And when you get your client off on a technicality? Or when you mislead the judge during a bond hearing and your client commits another crime after release?

Isn't there some way to ethically do your job without trying to get every one of clients off scott free?

Let's NOT turn this into a debate about whether PDs are good or bad or unethical or what have you, please. It's going to derail what can be a helpful thread (and your questions, McDuff, are pure shit-stirring).

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

chalky wrote:Do you feel any kind of indirect responsibility when you secure a not guilty verdict for your defendant and they commit more crimes?

Not at all. I sometimes feel like a hamster running in place on a wheel, but I'd never feel responsible for any new crimes. If the state doesn't have enough evidence on one case, my client certainly shouldn't be punished for that, no matter what may happen in the future.

And when you get your client off on a technicality? Or when you mislead the judge during a bond hearing and your client commits another crime after release?

Isn't there some way to ethically do your job without trying to get every one of clients off scott free?

I hope you'd ask all those same questions of a corporate/M&A associate.

I'll try again. Salary info. please. We all understand that in most cases big cities pay more & that the cost of living is higher in big cities, but PD pay varies substantially among jurisdictions. I'm curious as to your pay experience in each office--minimums & maximums. Thanks.

P.S. Also in which region of the country are you located ?

How often do you go to trial?

How well do you get along with the prosecutors?

What are the advantages and disadvantages of PDing in a small town vs big city?