Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit Forum

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Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:10 pm

Lucky enough to have offers from both of these firms. I am really interested in white collar/criminal defense & investigations, with a possible interest in the US Attorney down the road. However, I would like to get exposure to lots of different litigation projects, and have somewhat of an interest in sports/entertainment-related lit as well.

I was a little worried about the negative reputation of S&C when I applied/interviewed, but I found that everyone I ended up meeting was actually really great. The partners in the criminal defense/investigations group seem to be very experienced and friendly, which is great if I end up wanting to do a lot of work there. However, I am still scared of the negative rep. S&C seemed to pull out all the stops to get me to accept the offer, which is a good thing. I met with more partners there, specifically in my areas of interest, than partners and associates combined at the other firms where I was offered.

On the other hand, I always thought that Paul Weiss would be awesome because I heard such great things. These were pretty much confirmed, and everyone I met was very smart, well-spoken, and friendly. The ability to work in sports/entertainment and in some of the great pro bono stuff they do is a plus. However, it seemed like the recruiting at PW was a lot more rigid than that at S&C. You could tell that some partners were pretty off-limits, since people talked about them like they were ghosts that you see every once in a while. They definitely didn't try as hard as S&C to get me to accept, but I don't really know what to think about that. They might have seen that I already really liked them.

Anyway, I really don't know what to do. I was (and still am) leaning Paul Weiss, but S&C has been growing on me. Is the negative S&C rep real? Is Ted Wells a unicorn? Please help TLS.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:43 pm

A partner at a peer firm of Paul Weiss and S&C in New York City (and by peer firm I mean peer firm) told me during a callback that Paul Weiss is doing exceptionally well financially, and is a good place to work with respect to white-collar litigation as an alternative to his firm. (I got an offer at the peer firm even after discussing Paul Weiss with him).

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:45 pm

Same anon as above. But also read Judge Berman's opinion in DeflateGate, which criticitizes Ted Wells and Paul Weiss's handling of the Tom Brady football situation. The subtext was that Ted Wells and Paul Weiss mismanaged the investigation and undercut the NFL's case against Brady.

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rpupkin

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by rpupkin » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Same anon as above. But also read Judge Berman's opinion in DeflateGate, which criticitizes Ted Wells and Paul Weiss's handling of the Tom Brady football situation. The subtext was that Ted Wells and Paul Weiss mismanaged the investigation and undercut the NFL's case against Brady.
LOL

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:51 pm

I hope that you don't bungle the next NFL investigation PW does after you join the firm, OP.

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Nekrowizard

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Nekrowizard » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:52 pm

^^^^^^^^^^. Didn't mean to anon.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by 2014 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:They definitely didn't try as hard as S&C to get me to accept
This means that S&C must REALLY want you! :roll:

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:12 pm

2014 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:They definitely didn't try as hard as S&C to get me to accept
This means that S&C must REALLY want you! :roll:
Thank you so much for cherry picking a single statement from my original post, in which I just tried to provide as much context as possible, and providing absolutely no insight. I especially appreciate how you only quoted half of a sentence (leaving out the part where I effectively say that it probably doesn't mean anything) so that your comment sounds more witty. What would I do without you?!

Otherwise, any serious feedback? Thank you for sharing the sentiments of that partner, anon.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:28 pm

That rep may have been well deserved, however if so it was before my time. In my experience so far, it's been a great place to work (as great as NYC Biglaw can be) - I've been able to try a variety of things I've been interested, I have a fair amount of control over what I'm doing, and I've been fortunate to work with great partners and associates. That being said, mine is just one person's experience, anonymous, and online.

So if all you're looking for is someone who has been there to tell you that the reputation isn't real or at the very least isn't universal, then count me as someone doing that, but unfortunately that's all I can do. Hopefully there are 3Ls at your school who you know/trust and can talk to about the reputation vs. reality.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:55 pm

If you are scared about S&C's bad rep, then maybe NYC big law is not for you. Neither S&C nor PW will be a walk in the park.

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Lacepiece23

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Lacepiece23 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:05 pm

Paul Weiss. Although at both places you will be doing largely doc review assignments for your first 2 years. Both places do well financially and have clients that will pay for junior associates to do that work. If you don't want to do doc review for 2 years find a firm that outsources its doc review to contract attorneys and hires smaller classes. But I can't hate on taking the prestige.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:13 pm

Paul weiss has its own army of contract attorneys on site, does it not? They even put them on the nalp form; there's like 120 of them. On my cb/second look the juniors said the only doc review they touch is managing the in house k attys. Could have been a lie but idk.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Lacepiece23 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Paul weiss has its own army of contract attorneys on site, does it not? They even put them on the nalp form; there's like 120 of them. On my cb/second look the juniors said the only doc review they touch is managing the in house k attys. Could have been a lie but idk.
Could have been wrong. I assumed that their clients still paid for doc review and they have a big class. That combination almost always means doc review. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me then for lit. PW has always seemed like TCR for NYC lit to me. But I chose a secondary market over NYC, so my knowledge is limited.

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rpupkin

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by rpupkin » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Paul weiss has its own army of contract attorneys on site, does it not? They even put them on the nalp form; there's like 120 of them. On my cb/second look the juniors said the only doc review they touch is managing the in house k attys. Could have been a lie but idk.
Just FYI, the process of "managing" contract attorneys doing doc review often involves doing a lot of doc review yourself. It's complicated. For many doc review projects, you can use contract attorneys for a first pass, but associates will have to involve themselves in reviewing docs at some point.

As far as I know, all the big firms use contract attorneys for doc review now, so I'm not sure that PW is unique in this regard.

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Re: Paul Weiss v. Sullivan & Cromwell for lit

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:55 am

It is highly unlikely that you will avoid doing doc review at either firm (I know second/third years at both who still do doc review), since their marquee practice areas are securities lit and white collar, both of which involve a lot of docs. How much you will be doing and what kind (first level, QC, priv) will depend on the size of the matter and the speed at which the review needs to be done. And the above poster is right - I've managed doc review projects and still have to review pretty much every document to ensure that nothing was missed. Midlevel and senior associates will review many documents as well, especially if the partner indicates they are interested in knowing about every document regarding a specific issue.

Oh, and white collar work? A lot of it is responding to various third-party subpoenas or doing internal investigations. Those matters tend to be leanly staffed (sometimes a partner > senior/midlevel > junior). It's very difficult to justify assigning doc review attorneys to such a small project, so guess who ends up reviewing the documents?

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