Page 1 of 1
Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:34 am
by Anonymous User
Hey all - could someone broadly describe what categories of exit ops one might expect after you leave a firm from different practice groups? I keep hearing that exits are client specific, but I'm guessing that the kinds of work you do will dictate the types of clients and types of roles you exit into after 3-5 years. For example, I'm guessing you'd go in vastly different direction coming from M&A v. Cap. Markets v. Funds v. Exec Comp.
Sorry if this has been asked before. Thanks!
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:22 am
by Anonymous User
Also curious about this, but with completely different practice groups (non-corporate). Maybe we can start this thread as an ongoing exit-option resource. My options are currently split into two rough camps, with regulatory work on one side (ranging from communications, privacy, advertising, and energy, depending on the firm) and white collar & investigations on the other. I'll list my assumptions below, and it would be fantastic if anyone could offer insight or rebut them outright.
REGULATORY: presumably one could exit into either (1) a government agency or (2) possibly go in-house. For the first, I've spoken to plenty of folks who have jumped in and out of the government agencies they interact with, whether it's the FCC, FTC, or one of the energy regulators (FERC, CFTC, NRC, etc.). But is in-house a viable possibility from this type of practice? I have heard of privacy people jumping to companies like Google or Facebook, but I have no idea if this translates to other regulatory practices.
WHITE COLLAR: presumably this could lead to government work at DOJ or in some kind of agency Enforcement role. Could it also lead to in-house compliance work? I've heard of in-house compliance jobs but have no sense if that's a realistic exit option.
Any and all insight is appreciated!
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:37 am
by banjo
I saved this on Stickies a while ago and it's actually pretty interesting/helpful:
WhirledWorld wrote:Practice Groups by Exit Options
1. Issuer/Borrower-Side Corporate Finance -- In my experience, these guys get the most (and often the best) in house offers. If you think about it, it makes sense -- businesses that need huge amounts of capital inflows typically are in growth mode and will typically need more lawyers. These lawyers also get a lot of client contact, so you develop relationships that can pay off. Deals take less time to close, so the lawyers running them get exposed to more companies. And I think it helps that you bring valuable real lawyering skills that companies often need (e.g. securities knowledge, how to draft risk factors for their quarterly reports, drafting, diligence, etc.).
2. Buy-side M&A -- Typically, companies that buy other companies are expanding into new markets (geographically or product-wise), and they also typically are big enough to need a large in-house department. You get lots of exposure to those in-house lawyers who could be your coworkers. And say what you will about dick-sucking and project management, they're highly valued skills.
3. Lender-side Finance and Sell-side M&A -- You still get client contact, but your client isn't growing (and with M&A, is often having headcount reduced) so there's less opportunities. Your skills are still highly valued though. You're just more likely to find your exit through networking or a posting than through your deal contacts (compared to the folks on the other side).
4. Tax/Labor -- You may not think green eyeshades are a sexy look, but large businesses do. Seriously, I know a handful of companies with over 100 in-house tax attorneys. You don't get as much client contact, but there's enough work that companies will often be hiring even if they don't know you.
--Big Drop Off--
5. Real estate -- The RE lawyers I know have mostly gone to other firms, but I guess there are the Donald Trumps and REITs and development shops you can go to? I think part of the problem is that they're smaller and rely less on large in-house departments. But I'm not super knowledgeable in this area -- maybe someone can chip in here?
6. Bankruptcy -- Similar to RE. Debtors are rarely in a position to hire anyone. Lenders might hire a few folks. Distressed deal shops might hire a few folks, but they're also pretty small. There are some exits into the finance side of distressed dealmaking, but they're super rare and you need a finance background.
7. Litigation -- There just aren't many good-paying exits. Lots of government/enforcement work with a good schedule but a steep paycut. There's clerking, AUSA, there's going to smaller firms, there's a small number of in-house positions for firms that have a steady stream of litigation. But it really seems the options are limited. And they're all shockingly-competitive.
That's my $0.05.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8#p8133848
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:21 am
by Anonymous User
Can anyone speak to exit opportunities if in a hedge funds/PE group? Do the fund managers ultimately hire attorneys from big law?
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:37 am
by Anonymous User
Speaking from experience as an associate in a fund formation group -- Yes. All the time. The vast majority of in-house counsel we work with are people who were hired directly from us or another fund formation group. The legal staffing, especially on the funds side, tends to be leaner at PE/hedge fund shops than generally, but there are still plenty of jobs to go around.
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:42 am
by Anonymous User
Can anyone please share exit options for healthcare practice groups. I've been wondering for a while. Practice doesn't include life sciences. Thanks.
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:46 am
by thesealocust
From experience watching my friends move around, you also see plenty of moves where there's no obvious connection between the initial practice group and the new role. People who practice real estate for a few years then move into a position doing derivatives, somebody who does derivatives moves in-house at a fund, all kinds of stuff. It's probably more common for there to be a nexus between practice area and new job, but it's not as rigid as you might expect.
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:25 pm
by MCFC
So I've been doing a lot of LinkedIn stalking lately of people listed under departures in posts like these:
http://www.law.com/sites/peoplemoves/20 ... lipton-11/
What surprised me (probably shouldn't have, but I am still a dumb law student) has been the firm to firm within market moves.
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:05 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Speaking from experience as an associate in a fund formation group -- Yes. All the time. The vast majority of in-house counsel we work with are people who were hired directly from us or another fund formation group. The legal staffing, especially on the funds side, tends to be leaner at PE/hedge fund shops than generally, but there are still plenty of jobs to go around.
That's comforting. I got an offer after summering at a firm and I was concerned with pref'ing the fund formation PG because I'm not 100% committed to working at a firm for the rest of my life and wasn't sure of exit options.
Also, a little off topic, but I only did two projects with the group and thus didn't get a lot of time to get a sense their work flow, however, I've heard the practice in general described as slightly more predictable than other transactional groups (say M&A, cap markets, etc.). Do you find this to be the case in your in your experience?
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:11 pm
by ForgotMyPassword
Do litigation exit ops get any better/worse if the practice area is IP? Maybe a better shot at going in house at a large tech?
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:18 pm
by 84651846190
ForgotMyPassword wrote:Do litigation exit ops get any better/worse if the practice area is IP? Maybe a better shot at going in house at a large tech?
If you have a tech background, that will help you more than any IP litigation experience by itself. I know people with tech backgrounds and IP lit experience who have gotten various kinds of in house positions. I can't say the same for my friends in IP lit without tech backgrounds. They seem sorta trapped.
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:19 pm
by Anonymous User
I switched from general litigation into labor & employment. Mostly made the switch because I really like the substance, far less discovery nonsense, and a good balance of litigation and client counseling work. But also because L&E attorneys seem to have great exit opportunities and have tons of in-house options once they build up a few years of experience.
Re: Exit ops from different practice groups?
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:25 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Speaking from experience as an associate in a fund formation group -- Yes. All the time. The vast majority of in-house counsel we work with are people who were hired directly from us or another fund formation group. The legal staffing, especially on the funds side, tends to be leaner at PE/hedge fund shops than generally, but there are still plenty of jobs to go around.
That's comforting. I got an offer after summering at a firm and I was concerned with pref'ing the fund formation PG because I'm not 100% committed to working at a firm for the rest of my life and wasn't sure of exit options.
Also, a little off topic, but I only did two projects with the group and thus didn't get a lot of time to get a sense their work flow, however, I've heard the practice in general described as slightly more predictable than other transactional groups (say M&A, cap markets, etc.). Do you find this to be the case in your in your experience?
Yes, with the caveat that it's still not completely predictable. Today we had a big flurry of client anxiety because of the market crash where they suddenly want to do closings ASAP that were previously a more languid pace.