Biglaw associates: are any of us actually happy? Forum

[wons]

Let's not kid ourselves. You're a transaction cost with shoes.

Sure, but no more so than the bankers, consultants, accountants, etc. If we're going to kill all the rent-seekers then the lawyers will hardly be the first up against the wall.

[rpupkin]

<shrug> I can't speak to litigation, it seems miserable to me. Corporate is different - there's real money at stake and you can see the rewards of your work fairly quickly. I once was given this not-important agreement to negotiate against another associate - which they do sometimes to give you practice - and got an indemnity snuck in there. Much to everyone's surprise, we all got sued in connection with the deal. Indemnity ended up saving the client a couple of million bucks. That was kind of cool - got a nice thank you and a bottle of scotch from them. Is it the heady rush of thinking up a sector-disrupting mobile app or something like that? Duh, no. But it is more than pushing paper.

I'm sure this has been posted here before, but I can't help myself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_auFicUWK4

[wons]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

[Anonymous User]

2L here deciding on Delaware firms for SA. Anyone have experience and/or knowledge on exit options from DE big law since they aren't big city big law per se, but still represent/work with huge name clients in the corporate capital? Wondering if similar to major market exit options will be available after after 3-5 years.

On topic, (granted not yet exposed to big law), but from my niave perspective, it seems worth it to grind it out & hate your life for a few years, while kids are being born and too young for you to miss sporting events/family events/whatever then leave for a less stressful, less time consuming, relatively well paying job that is afforded to you because you grinded it out in big law. Am I way off base? This option seems better than actively deciding against big law money and experience to work long hours and still be stressed.
Note, typed this on a phone so please excuse grammar.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

Why can't you be good at your job when you have complaints about it as well? What does being good at your job have to do with what anyone is saying here?

[gk101]

2L here deciding on Delaware firms for SA. Anyone have experience and/or knowledge on exit options from DE big law since they aren't big city big law per se, but still represent/work with huge name clients in the corporate capital? Wondering if similar to major market exit options will be available after after 3-5 years.

There was a really good thread on here talking about Delaware firms (started by DELG I think) try searching for it

[gk101]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

where are you getting that people who are complaining are hostile to doing the work well?

[thesealocust]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

. . .

[Cogburn87]

where are you getting that people who are complaining are hostile to doing the work well?

I guess after conceding that he's a worthless rent-seeking drain on society he needed to move the goal posts?

[smaug]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

where are you getting that people who are complaining are hostile to doing the work well?

Yeah to be clear, I don't care that you like your job. Good for you.

I'm laughing at your bravado over "real money at stake" and then fixating on "a couple of million bucks." Just lol.

[KingofSplitters55]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

. . .

stockholm syndrome

[wons]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

Why can't you be good at your job when you have complaints about it as well? What does being good at your job have to do with what anyone is saying here?

My personal experience is that it is impossible to dislike your biglaw job and be good at it. It takes up too much of your life. You can do something you vaguely dislike 6 hours a day or 7 hours a day, sure. But 12 hours? Every day? You either figure out a way to like it - and most folks do - or it drives you nuts and your work product sucks. There isn't that much of an in between.

[wons]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

where are you getting that people who are complaining are hostile to doing the work well?

Yeah to be clear, I don't care that you like your job. Good for you.

I'm laughing at your bravado over "real money at stake" and then fixating on "a couple of million bucks." Just lol.

Consider that I might have been being (falsely?) modest. I work at a big firm.

[thesealocust]

My personal experience is that it is impossible to dislike your biglaw job and be good at it.

My personal experience is that it is impossible to dislike your biglaw job and be good at it.

My personal experience is that it is impossible to dislike your biglaw job and be good at it.

My personal experience is that it is impossible to dislike your biglaw job and be good at it.

My personal experience is that it is impossible to dislike your biglaw job and be good at it.

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISLIKE YOUR BIGLAW JOB AND BE GOOD AT IT

MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISLIKE YOUR BIGLAW JOB AND BE GOOD AT IT

[kcdc1]

I guess I'll never understand why folks are so hostile do doing the work well. Is going in-house to do your TPS reports such a delightful improvement?

If you get rid of your ironic detachment, you might actually enjoy your work and be good at it. And trust me on this - it makes the job a hell of a lot more pleasant when the folks supervising you think you're good.

Why can't you be good at your job when you have complaints about it as well? What does being good at your job have to do with what anyone is saying here?

I believe the above comment was in response to rpupkin's post, which compared the earlier anecdote about negotiating a contract to a clip mocking biglaw work as nothing more than catching typos (and being inordinately pleased with each other re: catching typos). The sentiment of rpupkin's post was that it's uncool to be excited about doing your work well.

[Desert Fox]

[los blancos]

Transactional isn't even legal work.

TBF neither is doc review

[Anonymous User]

Third year V10 corp associate here.

I generally like what I do. My main issue is that, now I spend my life double-checking the work of bankers, I wish I had just been a banker. I enjoy the financial world, but I don't like being the lowest on the totem pole.

Following up on that, there's the issue of life post-big law. My friends in finance went IBD->PE/HF->smaller funds/in industry. In other words, they've stayed near the money while moving into positions with better lifestyles. When you go in-house, you go from being a revenue generator to being a cost center. Is it possible to have a nice, upper-middle class life nonetheless? Absolutely. But I'm not sure it's what I worked so hard for.

Also, I eventually realized I didn't envy the lives of anyone above me. At all. It has nothing to do with the personalities - it's just the building stress and complete commitment to one's career that's required.

[rpupkin]

I believe the above comment was in response to rpupkin's post, which compared the earlier anecdote about negotiating a contract to a clip mocking biglaw work as nothing more than catching typos (and being inordinately pleased with each other re: catching typos). The sentiment of rpupkin's post was that it's uncool to be excited about doing your work well.

For what it's worth, that was not the "sentiment" of my post. I don't think it's uncool to be excited about doing your work well. I just find that clip amusing, and it was roughly on point. Lighten up.

[Anonymous User]

Third year V10 corp associate here.

I generally like what I do. My main issue is that, now I spend my life double-checking the work of bankers, I wish I had just been a banker. I enjoy the financial world, but I don't like being the lowest on the totem pole.

Following up on that, there's the issue of life post-big law. My friends in finance went IBD->PE/HF->smaller funds/in industry. In other words, they've stayed near the money while moving into positions with better lifestyles. When you go in-house, you go from being a revenue generator to being a cost center. Is it possible to have a nice, upper-middle class life nonetheless? Absolutely. But I'm not sure it's what I worked so hard for.

Also, I eventually realized I didn't envy the lives of anyone above me. At all. It has nothing to do with the personalities - it's just the building stress and complete commitment to one's career that's required.

I quit my V10 corporate job after two years - this post sums up my feelings perfectly.

[kcdc1]

I believe the above comment was in response to rpupkin's post, which compared the earlier anecdote about negotiating a contract to a clip mocking biglaw work as nothing more than catching typos (and being inordinately pleased with each other re: catching typos). The sentiment of rpupkin's post was that it's uncool to be excited about doing your work well.

For what it's worth, that was not the "sentiment" of my post. I don't think it's uncool to be excited about doing your work well. I just find that clip amusing, and it was roughly on point. Lighten up.

Fair enough. That's how I read the comment, but it admittedly could be read in another light.

[los blancos]

On topic, (granted not yet exposed to big law), but from my niave perspective, it seems worth it to grind it out & hate your life for a few years, while kids are being born and too young for you to miss sporting events/family events/whatever then leave for a less stressful, less time consuming, relatively well paying job that is afforded to you because you grinded it out in big law. Am I way off base?

you're off base, at least partially:

1. because the bolded is hardly guaranteed. Speaking more as a litigator here, but look up the threads on this (will concede that exit opps are better for corp). People are fighting tooth and nail to make 1/3 of their biglaw salaries in Big Fed/State gvt.

2. because who the f wants to miss the first months/years of their kids' lives?

3. because (and again, people don't seem to get this) the damage caused to your neurons by chronic stress is permanent.

[dixiecupdrinking]

the work is fun in the sense that you're playing chess against other smart people.

"Checkmate," he lisped as he tagged the doc as "hot"

<shrug> I can't speak to litigation, it seems miserable to me. Corporate is different - there's real money at stake and you can see the rewards of your work fairly quickly. I once was given this not-important agreement to negotiate against another associate - which they do sometimes to give you practice - and got an indemnity snuck in there. Much to everyone's surprise, we all got sued in connection with the deal. Indemnity ended up saving the client a couple of million bucks. That was kind of cool - got a nice thank you and a bottle of scotch from them. Is it the heady rush of thinking up a sector-disrupting mobile app or something like that? Duh, no. But it is more than pushing paper.

Yeah... when I get sued and want to make sure I win, the first person I turn to is definitely a transactional lawyer.

[Desert Fox]

[wons]

Yeah, but you guys are defining 'happiness" in such a way that it can't be satisfied. If you're not a real lawyer unless you're a litigator, if you're not happy unless you're not stressed, if you're work isn't meaningful unless it involves Issues of Great Importance. In other words, it might be fair to say that litigation associates who wanted to do public interest work and have issues managing stress are not happy in biglaw. But, of course they're not! Anorexics aren't happy as offensive linemen, either.