Thoughts on these NY firms for lit? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

I received an offer from a NY firm that I really like, so I'm thinking about cancelling some upcoming screeners I have. Can anyone speak to the litigation practices at Jones Day, White & Case, Debevoise, Proskauer, Covington, Cadwalader, or Akin? Are any of them particularly better/worse than the others?

I see Fried Frank, Kasowitz, Kramer Levin, and Milbank are all highly ranked on Chambers for lit, but aren't very highly ranked on Vault. Any thoughts on these firms?

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts?

[thesealocust]

Chambers & Partners guide to litigation in NY will be your best bet for comparing firms at that level, but I don't have any insights from personal experience.

Vault overall rankings are pretty worthless unless you're looking to do M&A in NYC and have offers from the top 10 or 15 firms.

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you aren't dead-set on taking your current offer, most of them are probably worth interviewing with, IMO. If you're looking to cut down I would avoid Cadwalader (reputation of being a shitty culture), Kasowitz (layoffs, odd firm) and maybe White & Case (vague rumblings of financial decline, seem oddly low-profile for their supposed prestige, not sure what their deal is).

The others all have strengths and weaknesses. Debevoise is a great NYC mothership firm with broad practices, but I've heard (anecdotally, grain of salt, I don't work there) it's a bit heavy on lit and investigations for financial firms. It may also (again, grain of salt) be a bit more sweatshoppy than some others, though that will always depend primarily on who you end up working for and on what matters. Jones Day seems a bit cultish (for good or bad), huge, has black box compensation, juniors are in unassigned practice areas. Covington is a satellite office of an excellent firm. Proskauer seems like a better place for you if you're into labor/employment than if you're not. And so on. Given the eclectic list and lack of specifics in your post, I'm guessing that you don't know exactly what you're looking for yet (nor should you), so I'd probably just do the interviews if I were you.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much for your insight, that was really helpful.

Just to follow up – does White & Case punch below its weight? I had always heard of the firm as being a top white-shoe firm with great lit, which is why I put it on my list. But are they not regarded as on the same level as other V20s? Any specifics about them being in financial decline? I know they have a low RPL.

How is Jones Day cultish? Also, I've heard Jones Day and Covington have a very strong reputation in D.C. – are the NY offices substantially less-well regarded?

Thanks again everyone.

[jbagelboy]

Of these firms, Debevoise certainly has the largest presence and strongest reputation in New York.

I don't think you could go wrong with Covington either, although the clients and work might be slightly different.

Depends on the firm where you have an offer that you're comparing them to. The Band 1 elite here tracks the general impression of the best 'big firm' (as opposed to boutique, which is a different ballgame) litigation in the city: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... torial/5/1. So, if you're comparing these firms to, e.g., Paul Weiss, DPW, CSM, then you can probably shed a lot of your interviews.

Some of these other firms might be as strong or stronger in particular areas of litigation than the "band 1", but they won't be as strong across the board.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Thanks so much for your insight, that was really helpful.

Just to follow up – does White & Case punch below its weight? I had always heard of the firm as being a top white-shoe firm with great lit, which is why I put it on my list. But are they not regarded as on the same level as other V20s? Any specifics about them being in financial decline? I know they have a low RPL.

How is Jones Day cultish? Also, I've heard Jones Day and Covington have a very strong reputation in D.C. – are the NY offices substantially less-well regarded?Thanks again everyone.

I honestly don't know anything about White & Case, which is both why I find the firm odd (I know at least something about every other firm in their vault range) and why it's not fair for me to criticize them.

Cultish might be strong. I just got the impression there is some real kool aid at Jones Day. On the one hand, great, people are happy there. On the other hand it's a 1000 lawyer mega firm, how special can it be? And they don't pay lockstep, how good can that be for the average associate? Don't get me wrong, it's a good firm, the culture just seems a bit odd. A very subjective impression based necessarily on a non representative sample.

Covington is basically top dog in DC and doesn't really stand out in NY in the same way, but is still very solid. End of the day, a smaller office has pros and cons. Jones Day is in a different category in my mind because while the DC office is well regarded, it's not the HQ like with Covington.

[Anonymous User]

For how long is this shitty rep at Cadwalader joke on these forums going to continue? They revamped everything years ago and it is no longer anywhere near where it was and is no worse than any other firm working wise.

HOWEVER, they are mostly a transactional firm so if its lit work you seek you probably should look elsewhere.

[Anonymous User]

Just to follow up – does White & Case punch below its weight? I had always heard of the firm as being a top white-shoe firm with great lit, which is why I put it on my list. But are they not regarded as on the same level as other V20s? Any specifics about them being in financial decline? I know they have a low RPL.

White & Case had a rough time during the recession. They Latham'ed a lot of employees, and they even cut their NY summer classes down to 30~40 summer associates. However, the firm has been recovering since then, and their business is starting to pick back up (as can be seen here). Next year, they're planning on having a summer associate class size of at least 50 people at their NY office (up from ~35 from this year). They're also moving to a new office in the beginning of 2017, and the morale within the firm is strong again.