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I am a first year NYC corporate associate at a ~V50 (for what it's worth). For personal reasons I want to switch to a comparable firm in a smaller secondary market. And I may have the opportunity to do so sooner rather than later.

I'll be hitting 2400 or 2500 in my first year at my NYC sweatshop. One of the perceived perks of switching to a secondary market is that the hours will less appalling than NYC hours. Part of me thinks these long hours are due at least in part to the neuroticism of NYC and its ridiculously demanding clients. But part of me also realizes that most big firms cross-staff between offices, many clients are in NYC regardless of where the firm is, and that the ridiculous hours may just be a reality of big firm life regardless of where your office is.

Is it wishful thinking to assume that, in general, working as a corporate associate at a national big firm in a secondary market will be less grueling than working at a similar firm in NYC? Does NYC make things inherently worse? Does it depend so much that I can't generalize?

Thanks.

2400-2500 worked or billed?

2400 and above is pretty nuts; that's on the upper end even at some notorious sweatshopy NYC firms. It's fair to expect much better hours in a secondary market generally, but there will be bad years in the secondary market (or in particular practices) and slow years in NYC, so it's pretty hard to generalize.

thesealocust wrote:2400 and above is pretty nuts; that's on the upper end even at some notorious sweatshopy NYC firms. It's fair to expect much better hours in a secondary market generally, but there will be bad years in the secondary market (or in particular practices) and slow years in NYC, so it's pretty hard to generalize.

2400 *worked would be normal in NYC I think.. but 2400 billed would be on the upper end

I'm guessing he/she is talking about billed hours but u never know

Yeah, it's billed. My first few months were ~150-200 hours, which was fine. But then things picked up, associates left, and I found myself doing 300 for a few months. We've been promised more associates soon, but nothing yet.

Thanks for the insight, TSL.

OP here. Any further insight here?

Thank you.

Very few markets match New York's idiotic intensity. 2400 billables would be possible anywhere, but gets much, much less likely the further you get from NYC. If you say what the smaller market is (you're posting anon, after all), I might be able to help more.

V100 in Dallas. I might hit 1800 this year, but am on pace for closer to 1650-1700. I've been told it's not a big deal and that no one hits the hours their first year. Most the older associates were right around 2000-2050 last year. I'm told the really busy beavers break 2150.

And we're making the same this year. Technically I'm keeping more. Come south.

Depends on firm and market, though generally speaking your average anonymous V50 firm is going to have higher avg hours in NY than elsewhere. That said I'm at a firm at the top of its secondary (Non-NY but still major market) city and 2400 for an associate who isn't being phased out is pretty standard and 2800-3000+ is more the norm for midlevels and seniors gunning for partner.

Anonymous User wrote:Depends on firm and market, though generally speaking your average anonymous V50 firm is going to have higher avg hours in NY than elsewhere. That said I'm at a firm at the top of its secondary (Non-NY but still major market) city and 2400 for an associate who isn't being phased out is pretty standard and 2800-3000+ is more the norm for midlevels and seniors gunning for partner.

Jesus. 3000 hours is absurd.

lawschoolftw wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Depends on firm and market, though generally speaking your average anonymous V50 firm is going to have higher avg hours in NY than elsewhere. That said I'm at a firm at the top of its secondary (Non-NY but still major market) city and 2400 for an associate who isn't being phased out is pretty standard and 2800-3000+ is more the norm for midlevels and seniors gunning for partner.

Jesus. 3000 hours is absurd.

Yeah very normal. But it REALLY depends on the practice, location, institutional culture, class year. I'm at a V15 in New York, 3rd year. I know folks who are grinding out 2500 hours, folks who are pushing 3k who want to make it, and also folks who are cruising on 1700 without anyone blinking an eye. Midlevels and seniors get obviously more scrutiny from partners. Juniors are only watched by mid levels who police through the standard review process, so have no real pressure from firm leadership. Really depends.

If you want more details, feel free to PM me.

ozymandius wrote:Very few markets match New York's idiotic intensity. 2400 billables would be possible anywhere, but gets much, much less likely the further you get from NYC. If you say what the smaller market is (you're posting anon, after all), I might be able to help more.

Again, depends... i know folks in Florida pushing 2400 litigating airline baggage loss cases for V100s...

LawFirmInterviews wrote:

ozymandius wrote:Very few markets match New York's idiotic intensity. 2400 billables would be possible anywhere, but gets much, much less likely the further you get from NYC. If you say what the smaller market is (you're posting anon, after all), I might be able to help more.

Again, depends... i know folks in Florida pushing 2400 litigating airline baggage loss cases for V100s...

Yeah, I'm sure it's "normal" in NYC, but I'll push 2200 this year and I'm not sure I have the capacity for a whole lot more without being completely miserable.

lawschoolftw wrote:

LawFirmInterviews wrote:

ozymandius wrote:Very few markets match New York's idiotic intensity. 2400 billables would be possible anywhere, but gets much, much less likely the further you get from NYC. If you say what the smaller market is (you're posting anon, after all), I might be able to help more.

Again, depends... i know folks in Florida pushing 2400 litigating airline baggage loss cases for V100s...

Yeah, I'm sure it's "normal" in NYC, but I'll push 2200 this year and I'm not sure I have the capacity for a whole lot more without being completely miserable.

Haha it's not like the folks in NY doing 2200 aren't miserable. They just keep doing it, and a lot do more for more misery.