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Question for LLM students:

I'm currently a rising 3L at Vandy/UCLA/USC. I have a tax background. I finished 1L a bit below median, but I'm now top 33% after a really strong 2L year. I'm strongly considering getting a tax llm to work in employee plans/ERISA compliance. However, I'm married, and whichever I attend, I would want to stay in that respective city for 4-5 years due to my spouse's job. We'd much prefer NYC.

For anyone who has gone through either program, do you have any sense how competitive NYU graduates are vs. Gtown for employee benefits jobs? Gtown offers a full list of classes on ERISA and a certificate, and I've only seen one or two classes even offered by NYU. I suppose my concern is that if I attend NYU I'll be at a disadvantage because Georgetown appears to cater much more towards ERISA jobs.

I'd also appreciate any thoughts on the market for ERISA/Employee benefits focused LLM students.

Thanks.

NYU is still better. It's a no brainer.

NYU focuses more on executive compensation than benefits.

Are you trying to work at a law firm? If so, only about 15% of full-time NYU LLM's got major market biglaw this year. Within that number, a small minority is in exec comp/benefits as opposed to general tax.

Also, as a sidenote, almost every firm treats benefits differently. Some have it as a labor practice, others put it squarely in tax, and the new trend for NY firms seems to be to put it under corporate.

Anonymous User wrote:NYU focuses more on executive compensation than benefits.

Are you trying to work at a law firm? If so, only about 15% of full-time NYU LLM's got major market biglaw this year. Within that number, a small minority is in exec comp/benefits as opposed to general tax.

Also, as a sidenote, almost every firm treats benefits differently. Some have it as a labor practice, others put it squarely in tax, and the new trend for NY firms seems to be to put it under corporate.

It was above 50% the previous two years, so I'm skeptical of those numbers. And most the prior 2 years were in exec comp/empl benefits.

OP here. I had one really bad semester as a 1L (very explainable personal reasons) and the the rest have all been top 20%. Certainly aware of the risks, and I'd much prefer to simply land a job as a 3L, but I think I'd be a strong candidate given my school and grades. Don't want to take on the debt, but if it's a good career move and will get me the caliber job I want, it's something I'd at least like to consider. More interested in benefits work than executive compensation, but only slightly. Thanks for the responses.

If you want to end up in New York, then NYU would be better, even if their employee benefits course selection is weaker. Go to Georgetown if you want to work in DC.

Many larger New York firms pay for their associates to do the NYU tax LL.M. part-time. If you're able to secure a satisfactory job during 3L, I'd go with the job. If not, the NYU degree could give you a bit of an additional boost when you search for jobs (provided you do well in your classes). Keep in mind that the LL.M. is not the best choice for everyone, so I'd advise reading up more on it, asking professors for advice, etc., before making a final decision.

JohannDeMann wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:NYU focuses more on executive compensation than benefits.

Are you trying to work at a law firm? If so, only about 15% of full-time NYU LLM's got major market biglaw this year. Within that number, a small minority is in exec comp/benefits as opposed to general tax.

Also, as a sidenote, almost every firm treats benefits differently. Some have it as a labor practice, others put it squarely in tax, and the new trend for NY firms seems to be to put it under corporate.

It was above 50% the previous two years, so I'm skeptical of those numbers. And most the prior 2 years were in exec comp/empl benefits.

I'm talking just about Vault firms/$160k jobs when I mean "major market biglaw." That number is between 10-15% full-timers and has been for a while now. Maybe if you include Big 4 jobs, tax gigs in top firms in tertiary markets in Nebarkabama, <10 lawyer tax controversy boutiques, and Tax Court - you MIGHT get to 50%. Also, if it was above 50% the past two years, then that means that Vault firms have had at least 50 entry level tax positions open up each year and dipped below top quarter in the LLM class - both of which have been historically untrue. But then again, your guess is as good as mine, since NYU is pretty tight-lipped about LLM job stats. Wonder why...

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I had one really bad semester as a 1L (very explainable personal reasons) and the the rest have all been top 20%. Certainly aware of the risks, and I'd much prefer to simply land a job as a 3L, but I think I'd be a strong candidate given my school and grades. Don't want to take on the debt, but if it's a good career move and will get me the caliber job I want, it's something I'd at least like to consider. More interested in benefits work than executive compensation, but only slightly. Thanks for the responses.

A few more things for OP:

1. Out of all the job postings this year on Symplicity, OCI, TIP - I can only recall one mentioning ERISA (Kirkland Chicago resume drop - which you're probably not getting). It's not exactly a booming area, and if you're going to commit to the LLM, you should go in with the mindset of "I need a job, but it would be nice if it were in ERISA" rather than "I only want to do ERISA." Simply said, you cannot be overtly picky during the LLM job search because you are essentially competing with firm SA's coming into tax, 3L's with SA's and good grades wanting to switch markets, and laterals. You're not exactly at the top of the pecking order. On top of being flexible, you also need to get good grades first semester (>3.5/top 25%) to even be considered at most firms, network (do not count on formal recruiting - only 4 Vault firms interviewed on-campus and most TIP CB's went to the same people in the top 10%), and nail your interviews. It's far from guaranteed, but with your school and JD grades, you're in a good position.

2. Unless you network your ass off this summer and over the next year, your chances of getting the job you want at graduation are pretty low. As a result, I do think that the LLM (if you do what you need to do) will improve your outcome and might be worth the investment (caveat: depending on your financial situation).

3. From talking with a solid number of NY exec comp attorneys, I got the sense that most started off in ERISA in the late 80's/early 90's and then moved into exec comp as firms started emphasizing transactional work. The more traditional ERISA work still seems to be strong in DC - which is why GULC might be a good move here. Also, being in DC will let you network into the govt agencies that handle ERISA as well.

I worked in the ERISA field for several years and DC is definitely the biggest market for that kind of work. Many biglaw firms have a large ERISA practice in DC (MLB, Proskauer, Gibson, Arendt Fox, Steptoe, many others), there are also top market paying boutiques such as Groom, and a good amount of smaller but still very reputable firms like O'Donogue and Slevin. The 3 ERISA agencies (IRS, DOL, and PBGC) are of course in DC as well and all hire LLM grads. With that in mind, I still think an NYU LLM is more highly valued here--but it will be an uphill road to get hired without relevant pre-LLM ERISA experience.

Anonymous User wrote:


I'm talking just about Vault firms/$160k jobs when I mean "major market biglaw." That number is between 10-15% full-timers and has been for a while now. Maybe if you include Big 4 jobs, tax gigs in top firms in tertiary markets in Nebarkabama, <10 lawyer tax controversy boutiques, and Tax Court - you MIGHT get to 50%. Also, if it was above 50% the past two years, then that means that Vault firms have had at least 50 entry level tax positions open up each year and dipped below top quarter in the LLM class - both of which have been historically untrue. But then again, your guess is as good as mine, since NYU is pretty tight-lipped about LLM job stats. Wonder why...

NYU is not tight lipped about job stats. They are right here: http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/l ... candidates