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I was fired for cause (poor performance) at a law-unrelated job prior to law school. There is no resume gap because it was right when I would have left to go to law school anyway, so it wouldn't be difficult to avoid in an interview, but I would not be comfortable or willing to lie on an application if it asked that question directly (not even considering the potential implications for my bar app, on which I know that I will be required to disclose any terminations).

So has anyone ever seen a question on a job app asking if you have ever been fired?

Anonymous User wrote:I was fired for cause (poor performance) at a law-unrelated job prior to law school. There is no resume gap because it was right when I would have left to go to law school anyway, so it wouldn't be difficult to avoid in an interview, but I would not be comfortable or willing to lie on an application if it asked that question directly (not even considering the potential implications for my bar app, on which I know that I will be required to disclose any terminations).

So has anyone ever seen a question on a job app asking if you have ever been fired?

It won't come up at OCI, but when you start your summer position there's a good chance the firm's HR people will have you fill out a standard employment form. Those often ask about prior terminations/reasons for leaving your past jobs.

Emma. wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I was fired for cause (poor performance) at a law-unrelated job prior to law school. There is no resume gap because it was right when I would have left to go to law school anyway, so it wouldn't be difficult to avoid in an interview, but I would not be comfortable or willing to lie on an application if it asked that question directly (not even considering the potential implications for my bar app, on which I know that I will be required to disclose any terminations).

So has anyone ever seen a question on a job app asking if you have ever been fired?

It won't come up at OCI, but when you start your summer position there's a good chance the firm's HR people will have you fill out a standard employment form. Those often ask about prior terminations/reasons for leaving your past jobs.

fyi my biglaw firm didn't ask this in any employment form

yeah its not like knowing whether or not a hypothetical firm will ever ask you if you've been fired should change your job strategy. No one will likely ask and if they do you won't lie anyway. It seems pretty cut and dry.

It would actually have a pretty significant effect on several major choices that I have to make, so any available details are very appreciated.

Anonymous User wrote:It would actually have a pretty significant effect on several major choices that I have to make, so any available details are very appreciated.

Despite the counter-anecdotes ITT, I think it's pretty standard for law firms to ask you to fill out an "employment history" form before you start work. In many (most?) states, employers must require prospective employees to report their prior work history. Usually, these forms have a "reason for leaving" field (or something like that) for each past job. If you were formally terminated from a past job, you need to report that.

If it makes you feel any better, my sense is that these forms play no role in the hiring process in big law--it's basically an HR formality. You're going to be hired (or not hired) based on your law school, grades, and personality.

I really hope you're right. I'm kicking myself right now because I easily could have quit...my manager and I both talked about how it was coming for like a month beforehand because I had checked out due to law school being right around the corner (which they knew about) but wanted dat severance package which I wouldn't get if I had quit. Didn't realize that I would have to disclose this for the rest of my effing life...

Anonymous User wrote:I really hope you're right. I'm kicking myself right now because I easily could have quit...my manager and I both talked about how it was coming for like a month beforehand because I had checked out due to law school being right around the corner (which they knew about) but wanted dat severance package which I wouldn't get if I had quit. Didn't realize that I would have to disclose this for the rest of my effing life...

Yeah, you generally want to avoid getting fired for cause. Live and learn.

Again, I'm no expert, but I think the HR departments of law firms ask about "reason for leaving" because of liability concerns--they're looking for something like violent behavior or sexual harassment. In general, "competency" issues are left to the firm lawyers, and they're not looking at your HR forms; they're looking at your resume and transcript.

Every firm I've worked at has had us fill out something that would catch this and I suspect most typical big law firms do.

But, you'll already have your summer offer in hand and (in my opinion) this would probably not have any effect on your full time offer. They certainly might follow up with the employer to confirm the details though.

What's done is done. So long as the "for cause" does not involve dishonesty or any criminal conduct, then you need to stop punishing yourself & view it as a life experience that has had a maturing effect on your development.

I know the question is about firms, but here is some related info:

Some bar applications ask the terms of your departure in your employment history (e.g., CO and CA). Also, if you go BigFed, your background investigation will ask this question and then want to follow up if you give an affirmative answer. As long as you didn't do anything illegal, you should be fine.

The firm I'm summering at has never asked me anything like that. V20, fwiw.

Not OP, but I have a somewhat similar question. I had a job one summer of undergrad from which I was fired two weeks before I was scheduled to leave to go back to school. I wouldn't say I was fired for cause because my employment was simply a stopgap measure to fill a spot that couldn't be easily filled permanently. They unexpectedly filled the position and let me go so the new employee that was going to be permanent could start. How should I describe my reason for leaving to firms?

Not OP, but I have a question more related to admission to the bar. I had a job that lasted a few weeks before we kind of mutually parted ways. The company no longer exists and this was like 8 years ago during undergrad. I just forgot about it when applying to law schools since I never include it on my resume. Should I include it on the bar application and then change my school app to reflect it or is it no big deal

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I have a somewhat similar question. I had a job one summer of undergrad from which I was fired two weeks before I was scheduled to leave to go back to school. I wouldn't say I was fired for cause because my employment was simply a stopgap measure to fill a spot that couldn't be easily filled permanently. They unexpectedly filled the position and let me go so the new employee that was going to be permanent could start. How should I describe my reason for leaving to firms?

This sounds more like getting laid-off to me, but I would describe it exactly as you did here.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I have a somewhat similar question. I had a job one summer of undergrad from which I was fired two weeks before I was scheduled to leave to go back to school. I wouldn't say I was fired for cause because my employment was simply a stopgap measure to fill a spot that couldn't be easily filled permanently. They unexpectedly filled the position and let me go so the new employee that was going to be permanent could start. How should I describe my reason for leaving to firms?

This sounds more like getting laid-off to me, but I would describe it exactly as you did here.

On the forms I've seen, you wouldn't have room for such a description.

Anon: Based on what you described, I think it's fine to write "Returned to school" as the reason for leaving.

OP here

I appreciate the encouraging words. I definitely have a tendency to fixate/worry myself and punish myself for things that are in the past. Rationally I believe it probably won't matter because as said before it had nothing to do with dishonesty/disciplinary action, I just wasn't a good fit. I also figure that since I'll already have an offer it wouldn't really be a reason to rescind one, especially if not all firms even ask about it. Let's hope I'm right!

I'll try to save my neuroses for the actual OCI process, and put a lid on it for now. Thanks again!

Keep in mind that if they call your past employer it won't be a big deal. Most employers refuse to give much info out about past employees and usually only give dates of employment/confirm employment. It's pretty rare for them to give out the reason for leaving/termination.

Did you send in an updated resume to your law school? Im curious because I am going through the same situation.

rpupkin wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I have a somewhat similar question. I had a job one summer of undergrad from which I was fired two weeks before I was scheduled to leave to go back to school. I wouldn't say I was fired for cause because my employment was simply a stopgap measure to fill a spot that couldn't be easily filled permanently. They unexpectedly filled the position and let me go so the new employee that was going to be permanent could start. How should I describe my reason for leaving to firms?

This sounds more like getting laid-off to me, but I would describe it exactly as you did here.

On the forms I've seen, you wouldn't have room for such a description.

Anon: Based on what you described, I think it's fine to write "Returned to school" as the reason for leaving.

I've seen "reasons for leaving" drop down menus on online apps that say something like "temporary / seasonable employment" and "workforce reduction" as options. So be truthful of course, but for the Anon post I quoted just above, I think reason there could be "temporary / seasonal employment" and that sufficient and accurate.