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Can we designate this the general 3L oci thread?

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Can anyone shed light on when to start applying for 3L OCI positions? Seems as though it's a bit early in the summer at this point.

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone shed light on when to start applying for 3L OCI positions? Seems as though it's a bit early in the summer at this point.

whenever the deadline to apply to OCI is

if you mean mass mailing? mid or late july is what i've been told

I received an offer as a 3L a few years ago. Rule #1 is don't rely on formal OCI. Mail the firms you are interested in directly. Many firms that WILL be looking to hire 3Ls will not list any 3L slots at OCI. With 3L recruiting, most interviewing goes straight to callbacks, with a few firms interviewing via phone screeners. Another tip: go to OCI every morning about 30 minutes early. Drop off your materials with the recruiters, tell them you are a 3L and they didn't list any 3L slots, but you are interested nonetheless.

My other recommendation is to include a more detailed cover letter than the short generic one you would use otherwise. Since a lot of firms jump right to callbacks, this is your proxy for the screener. Anything that might make you sound interesting or otherwise stand out should be included. Mention whether you are interested in corporate or litigation since firms are generally filling particular openings. Mention that you did receive an offer from your SA firm--you probably will not get any bites if you did not. I'd even note that on your resume as well because it will come up in every single interview, along with why you do not want to return. I'm happy to answer more questions about the process and my experience.

Above anon was me. Wrong button.

Anonymous User wrote:I received an offer as a 3L a few years ago. Rule #1 is don't rely on formal OCI. Mail the firms you are interested in directly. Many firms that WILL be looking to hire 3Ls will not list any 3L slots at OCI. With 3L recruiting, most interviewing goes straight to callbacks, with a few firms interviewing via phone screeners. Another tip: go to OCI every morning about 30 minutes early. Drop off your materials with the recruiters, tell them you are a 3L and they didn't list any 3L slots, but you are interested nonetheless.

My other recommendation is to include a more detailed cover letter than the short generic one you would use otherwise. Since a lot of firms jump right to callbacks, this is your proxy for the screener. Anything that might make you sound interesting or otherwise stand out should be included. Mention whether you are interested in corporate or litigation since firms are generally filling particular openings. Mention that you did receive an offer from your SA firm--you probably will not get any bites if you did not. I'd even note that on your resume as well because it will come up in every single interview, along with why you do not want to return. I'm happy to answer more questions about the process and my experience.

Any advice on when to reach out to firms?

Thanks for the info OutCold.

About me: T14, poor grades, struck out during 2L OCI

Improved grades during 2L, am in-house in my target market now, want trans. My school isn't in my target market.

Any advice? I'm guessing I should network as much as possible and try to snag interviews while I'm here.

There's not a lot out there about the 3L process. Anything would be appreciated.

With regard to time frame, I recommend waiting until you receive the formal offer from your summer firm so that you can include it in your materials. In my case, that ended up being a few days into August, and about a week or two before OCI began. Most firms don't move too fast, and the 3L hiring tends to happen later in the process than 2L hiring. I had one phone screener at before OCI, one screener while the firm was on campus for OCI (but arranged outside the formal OCI process), a few that I lined up just hustling in the mornings at OCI, and quite a few in mid to late September, even into early October. The earliest I had an offer in hand was probably late September.

To the anon with improved grades but no SA, how poor were they before and how much did they improve? Grade improvements help quite a bit. I was slightly above median after 1L, but finished 2L around 25-30%. It really helped my prospects, and it was noted in several interviews. I can't speak with any particularity to your situation, but like I said before, the interviewers were very focused on whether I received an offer from my SA firm. I would say I was asked about it in every interview, and by the recruiting staff before they even arranged the interviews. I'm not sure how that will play out for you with no SA, but everything I had heard while I was researching the process myself indicated that it would be more difficult to find a firm willing to take a chance on you without another firm having basically signed off on you already. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, just that you are probably at a disadvantage. Networking might mitigate that though depending on your market and the kind of firms you are applying to. I was only looking at NY biglaw.

One other observation is that the firms that tend to have openings for 3Ls also tend to be the firms that take the largest classes. Unfortunately, those same firms also tend to be the most grade and school-conscious--Skadden, STB, DPW, Cravath, etc.

Anyone else planning on re-applying to firms that they had a summer offer from originally? I turned a few down for geographic reasons and now I'm planning on re-applying to them (geographic preferences have shifted). Is this process different in this situation?

Re offers:

I'm the only summer in a satellite of a firm who has a traditional summer program in their HQ. I don't expect to have an offer decision either way any time near 3LOLCI. If I want an offer here, I'll probably have to be a student associate for the year. Grades remain constant (top 20% at a t20) since 1L, with A's in the substantive classes in the practice areas I want.

What do?

To the anon with improved grades but no SA, how poor were they before and how much did they improve? Grade improvements help quite a bit. I was slightly above median after 1L, but finished 2L around 25-30%. It really helped my prospects, and it was noted in several interviews. I can't speak with any particularity to your situation, but like I said before, the interviewers were very focused on whether I received an offer from my SA firm. I would say I was asked about it in every interview, and by the recruiting staff before they even arranged the interviews. I'm not sure how that will play out for you with no SA, but everything I had heard while I was researching the process myself indicated that it would be more difficult to find a firm willing to take a chance on you without another firm having basically signed off on you already. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, just that you are probably at a disadvantage. Networking might mitigate that though depending on your market and the kind of firms you are applying to. I was only looking at NY biglaw.

One other observation is that the firms that tend to have openings for 3Ls also tend to be the firms that take the largest classes. Unfortunately, those same firms also tend to be the most grade and school-conscious--Skadden, STB, DPW, Cravath, etc.

I was around bottom third, am median now. CCN if that matters.

I'm gunning for a secondary market but I'd be perfectly fine with NYC.

I've been waiting for 3L OCI for almost a year now. I'm ready to get this over with already one way or the other.

OutCold wrote:With regard to time frame, I recommend waiting until you receive the formal offer from your summer firm so that you can include it in your materials. In my case, that ended up being a few days into August, and about a week or two before OCI began. Most firms don't move too fast, and the 3L hiring tends to happen later in the process than 2L hiring. I had one phone screener at before OCI, one screener while the firm was on campus for OCI (but arranged outside the formal OCI process), a few that I lined up just hustling in the mornings at OCI, and quite a few in mid to late September, even into early October. The earliest I had an offer in hand was probably late September.

To the anon with improved grades but no SA, how poor were they before and how much did they improve? Grade improvements help quite a bit. I was slightly above median after 1L, but finished 2L around 25-30%. It really helped my prospects, and it was noted in several interviews. I can't speak with any particularity to your situation, but like I said before, the interviewers were very focused on whether I received an offer from my SA firm. I would say I was asked about it in every interview, and by the recruiting staff before they even arranged the interviews. I'm not sure how that will play out for you with no SA, but everything I had heard while I was researching the process myself indicated that it would be more difficult to find a firm willing to take a chance on you without another firm having basically signed off on you already. That's not to say that it doesn't happen, just that you are probably at a disadvantage. Networking might mitigate that though depending on your market and the kind of firms you are applying to. I was only looking at NY biglaw.

One other observation is that the firms that tend to have openings for 3Ls also tend to be the firms that take the largest classes. Unfortunately, those same firms also tend to be the most grade and school-conscious--Skadden, STB, DPW, Cravath, etc.

Was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on the best way to reach out to recruiters via email. I was thinking about emailing some, explaining my situation (currently in the DC market and looking to go to New York due to family reasons), and including my resume and transcripts. I was also going to use that as an opportunity to ask if anyone at the firm would have time to meet for coffee or otherwise.

Thoughts?

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the info OutCold.

About me: T14, poor grades, struck out during 2L OCI

Improved grades during 2L, am in-house in my target market now, want trans. My school isn't in my target market.

Any advice? I'm guessing I should network as much as possible and try to snag interviews while I'm here.

There's not a lot out there about the 3L process. Anything would be appreciated.

In similar situation as you. CCN, 2L OCI struck out, in-house with a big organization with a ~40 ppl legal dpt in NY this summer. Grades improved by ~0.4 in 2L year but still around median.

BigLaw, MidLaw I don't care. I plan to start mass mailing around mid July. Any advice guys?

GPA on resume? Obvious yes, right? What about undergrad GPA?

Assuming it's good in both case, obviously.

what if your SA is at a smaller, boutique firm, that doesn't generally hire entry-level or make offers to its SA's, is there a way to say this on my cover letter so I don't automatically get dinged or look like I was no offered.

Does anyone have any insight as to timeline in terms of application --> Screener --> Callback --> Offer?

Faster or slower than 2L? Interested specifically in the New York market.

Am also looking for advice about how to approach this as a strikeout. Lower T-14, around median, working inhouse at F500. What matters now, and how do we emphasize it? Many thanks for any advice, and good luck to everyone. Somehow, we'll make it through.

Is anyone applying yet?

Anonymous User wrote:Is anyone applying yet?

My school's 3lolci deadline is today, so yes. Starting up massmailing formally soon (though really just planning. Will do a big salvo of emails next tuesday or wednesday probs).

For those with callbacks already, are you just ducking out of work for a few hours?

Anonymous User wrote:For those with callbacks already, are you just ducking out of work for a few hours?

I actually just took a day off. I don't think anyone would have noticed if I was gone but just in case.

Yeah I think both would be noticed and frowned upon in my case. So I'll just wait.

People have callbacks already?..