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Was wondering what the state of the big law market in Philadelphia currently is. All i ever seem to hear about is NYC and DC, but as someone from New Jersey who has always preferred Philly to NYC, I feel as if I would much rather end up there. It even seems as if U Penn students aren't looking to stay in Philly to practice based on the statistics that state only 17% stay in PA which also includes markets such as Pittsburgh. Any insight? Could it be seen as less stressful? Does it pay on the same scale as other large markets?

The work in Delaware is way better.

If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Credited. My sister-in-law went to a smaller Philly regional. Managed to barely get a couple v100 offers despite being salutatorian. The lateral market is also pretty tough - she moved to a different BigLaw firm there but it took some serious hunting and patience.

Also I don't think Philly is paying NY/DC market.

zacharus85 wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Credited. My sister-in-law went to a smaller Philly regional. Managed to barely get a couple v100 offers despite being salutatorian. The lateral market is also pretty tough - she moved to a different BigLaw firm there but it took some serious hunting and patience.

Also I don't think Philly is paying NY/DC market.

Some firms have just moved to 160k I believe. But most do pay 145k.

Lacepiece23 wrote:

zacharus85 wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Credited. My sister-in-law went to a smaller Philly regional. Managed to barely get a couple v100 offers despite being salutatorian. The lateral market is also pretty tough - she moved to a different BigLaw firm there but it took some serious hunting and patience.

Also I don't think Philly is paying NY/DC market.

Some firms have just moved to 160k I believe. But most do pay 145k.

Really? I remember DLA or somebody announcing they'd move to market for Philly for their first years... while not hiring any first years in Philly. Couldn't remember anyone seriously making the jump.

zacharus85 wrote:

Lacepiece23 wrote:

zacharus85 wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Credited. My sister-in-law went to a smaller Philly regional. Managed to barely get a couple v100 offers despite being salutatorian. The lateral market is also pretty tough - she moved to a different BigLaw firm there but it took some serious hunting and patience.

Also I don't think Philly is paying NY/DC market.

Some firms have just moved to 160k I believe. But most do pay 145k.

Really? I remember DLA or somebody announcing they'd move to market for Philly for their first years... while not hiring any first years in Philly. Couldn't remember anyone seriously making the jump.

Maybe you're right. I thought it was another firm that made the jump. I only remember because I was reading an article about the firm I'm working at and they mentioned something about some philly firms paying market now.

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Summered at one of the big Philly firms, at least there, this is totally false. Out of 15-20 SA's the vast majority were from other schools, zero from the T6.

Not trying to say the market is rosebuds and unicorns, but its not as big of a "bloodbath" as it may have been 4 years ago.

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Sounds like any other secondary markets such as Atlanta, Seattle...

JAYINSD wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Sounds like any other secondary markets such as Atlanta, Seattle...

I think that's the case. Obviously being T6 helps a lot, or going to Penn. The low numbers from those classes is self selection, nothing else.

Is the Philadelphia public interest market as much of a dumpster fire as the firm scene? Unfortunately, because of health reasons I am limited in my job search to southeastern PA.

Also, what's the going rate for Philly doc review?

I currently work at a big national firm with the main office located in Philly. We had a good number of summer's this past year from Villanova, a couple from Penn, UVA, Georgetown and even one from Northwestern. The number of summers is up from last and year and according to the NALP we are planning on increasing that number yet again.

AFAIK, and from speaking with associates at other firms, no one is paying NYC market (i.e. 160). The major firms are paying 145,000 for first years, and smaller places like Saul Ewing are low 120.

Definitely doesn't seem like a bloodbath, but I think that ties are extremely important, as with most secondary markets.

Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at a big national firm with the main office located in Philly. We had a good number of summer's this past year from Villanova, a couple from Penn, UVA, Georgetown and even one from Northwestern. The number of summers is up from last and year and according to the NALP we are planning on increasing that number yet again.

AFAIK, and from speaking with associates at other firms, no one is paying NYC market (i.e. 160). The major firms are paying 145,000 for first years, and smaller places like Saul Ewing are low 120.

Definitely doesn't seem like a bloodbath, but I think that ties are extremely important, as with most secondary markets.

Does ties in this case mean growing up in philly or the burbs, or more like PA in general

itascot1992 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at a big national firm with the main office located in Philly. We had a good number of summer's this past year from Villanova, a couple from Penn, UVA, Georgetown and even one from Northwestern. The number of summers is up from last and year and according to the NALP we are planning on increasing that number yet again.

AFAIK, and from speaking with associates at other firms, no one is paying NYC market (i.e. 160). The major firms are paying 145,000 for first years, and smaller places like Saul Ewing are low 120.

Definitely doesn't seem like a bloodbath, but I think that ties are extremely important, as with most secondary markets.

Does ties in this case mean growing up in philly or the burbs, or more like PA in general

Ties mean growing up in Philly or the surrounding 'burbs. So if you're from central PA or Pittsburgh that doesn't count as a connection to Philly.

BlueLotus wrote:

itascot1992 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at a big national firm with the main office located in Philly. We had a good number of summer's this past year from Villanova, a couple from Penn, UVA, Georgetown and even one from Northwestern. The number of summers is up from last and year and according to the NALP we are planning on increasing that number yet again.

AFAIK, and from speaking with associates at other firms, no one is paying NYC market (i.e. 160). The major firms are paying 145,000 for first years, and smaller places like Saul Ewing are low 120.

Definitely doesn't seem like a bloodbath, but I think that ties are extremely important, as with most secondary markets.

Does ties in this case mean growing up in philly or the burbs, or more like PA in general

Ties mean growing up in Philly or the surrounding 'burbs. So if you're from central PA or Pittsburgh that doesn't count as a connection to Philly.

what about undergrad in philly/burbs

itascot1992 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I currently work at a big national firm with the main office located in Philly. We had a good number of summer's this past year from Villanova, a couple from Penn, UVA, Georgetown and even one from Northwestern. The number of summers is up from last and year and according to the NALP we are planning on increasing that number yet again.

AFAIK, and from speaking with associates at other firms, no one is paying NYC market (i.e. 160). The major firms are paying 145,000 for first years, and smaller places like Saul Ewing are low 120.

Definitely doesn't seem like a bloodbath, but I think that ties are extremely important, as with most secondary markets.

Does ties in this case mean growing up in philly or the burbs, or more like PA in general

Or going to UG in/around Philly or working in the city post-grad.

I'm not in the Philly market, but as a former biglaw associate who interviewed many SA candidates, my impression is that ties generally just means anything to give an indication that they want to be in that given market, rather than just looking to keep options open. That can take a lot of forms (where you grew up, where you went to college, etc.). But the bottom line is that a firm wants to be convinced that you actually plan to stay around.

I would say that the statement that it's a bloodbath if not from the T6 is wrong. It's not a bloodbath if you have good ties to the area and have at least OK grades at any T14. The T6 statement is particularly weird because Philly firms are not school snobs and are not going to see any meaningful difference between Columbia and Duke. If I were an interviewer, I would think it's weird that a student chose to go to NYU but was claiming to be intent on Philly (without a good explanation) considering Penn is a peer school of NYU and is in Philly and COA at Penn would be cheaper.

I am from the Philadelphia area and went to a lower T14 and I got a lot of interest from the Philly market. My grades were good, but not outstanding. I did work in Philly my 1L summer, but I also didn't hide the fact that I was looking at another market when asked in interviews. If you really want Philly and anything else is just a fallback, make that abundantly clear.

Furthermore, from looking at the GPA info for students at my school who got offers from Philly firms, I can say that Philly firms are generally not grade snobs (when it comes to T14 students). I really do think it comes down to ties, and from what I saw, South Jersey counts as ties. Many of my interviewers were from Jersey.

I wasn't aware of any firms moving up to paying 160K this year. I'm currently a 2L and during my job hunt last summer, a few firms paid 145K (MLB, Dechert, Duane Morris) and the rest were between 125K and 135K.

B0bL0blaw wrote:I'm not in the Philly market, but as a former biglaw associate who interviewed many SA candidates, my impression is that ties generally just means anything to give an indication that they want to be in that given market, rather than just looking to keep options open. That can take a lot of forms (where you grew up, where you went to college, etc.). But the bottom line is that a firm wants to be convinced that you actually plan to stay around.

Thank you for this clear and concise answer! good post to break your TLS virginity (first post)

Anonymous User wrote:

BarbellDreams wrote:If you go to Penn or some other T6 you're probably fine. Otherwise, Philly is a complete bloodbath.

Summered at one of the big Philly firms, at least there, this is totally false. Out of 15-20 SA's the vast majority were from other schools, zero from the T6.

Not trying to say the market is rosebuds and unicorns, but its not as big of a "bloodbath" as it may have been 4 years ago.

You can say this about any market in the US.

Do people coming from regional schools(Temple, Villanova, Drexel) have an edge over lower T14 graduates in the Philly market?

if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.

Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.

How about T30 with ties?

BlueLotus wrote:

Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.

How about T30 with ties?

Are you a character from a DWaterman fever dream

DELG wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:

Poopface wrote:if you grew up in the philly area and are in law school at any t14, you will have no trouble getting a big law philly offer. If you are at a local t2 regional, you have to be top 10% in the class to get an interview with a philly biglaw firm.

How about T30 with ties?

Are you a character from a DWaterman fever dream