Venture Capital/Start-Up Lawyer, AMAA Forum

[NYCFAN1]

I'm a junior at WSGR/Goodwin/Cooley/Fenwick/etc and happy to answer questions if anyone wants the perspective of someone who is relatively new to the practice area.

So far I like it, but it's a steep learning curve for a junior IMO unless you have a biz background. As others have said, you are more involved with the client's actual business and need to learn how it works. For example, I've done a lot of diligence on licensing/IP issues and have had to pick that stuff up as I go along with the other things you have to learn as a junior.

One thing that also sucks as a junior is these clients can be very unorganized. When youre doing a disclosure schedule, for example, you will often have to more or less harass clients to get you certain documents/contracts. On the company side, there is rarely an in house lawyer to work with on these kinda of things, which can get annoying.

It's fun, though. Would definitely recommend. Feel very optimistic about exit ops and general career prospects, but obviously all of that is susceptible to market fluctuations and what not. Hoping there's not another dot com crash!

How did you express your interest in the field during OCI/interviews?

[lacrossebrother]

I legit don't understand why companies use yall instead of bankers to negotiate term sheets. Is there something difficult from a legal perspective about warrants, liquidity preferences, option pools, etc. that I'm missing where you add value above people good with math?

Or do you not negotiate?

[Lions1913]

...

[Anonymous User]

How did you express your interest in the field during OCI/interviews?

OP.

It was like any other interview. I did research on the firm, looked at its specialization, and said I was interested in what they do.

[Anonymous User]

I legit don't understand why companies use yall instead of bankers to negotiate term sheets. Is there something difficult from a legal perspective about warrants, liquidity preferences, option pools, etc. that I'm missing where you add value above people good with math?

OP.

We know the market. We know the general terms of warrants. We know what the current state of liquidity preferences are. We know what option pool percentages are normal for a given deal. We also have a better understanding of the powers founders can have vs. a VC in various scenarios (board seats, ability to force a sale of the company, ability to force an IPO, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

Where did you go to school/what (if any) was your work experience prior to law school?

OP.

top tier UG and law school. no prior work experience that was on my resume.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on Goodwin Procter?

OP.

Probably the only of the non-four major VC practices to have made significant inroads into the field. Great team, great practice.

[Anonymous User]

Hoping there's not another dot com crash!

OP.

Same here...

[lacrossebrother]

I legit don't understand why companies use yall instead of bankers to negotiate term sheets. Is there something difficult from a legal perspective about warrants, liquidity preferences, option pools, etc. that I'm missing where you add value above people good with math?

We know the market. We know the general terms of warrants. We know what the current state of liquidity preferences are. We know what option pool percentages are normal for a given deal. We also have a better understanding of the powers founders can have vs. a VC in various scenarios (board seats, ability to force a sale of the company, ability to force an IPO, etc.).

Gotcha. Doesn't seem very hard but I'm sure it's exciting. With those points in mind, do you feel like you have a lot left to learn as a mid level or could you step out soon and do the same job as your firm's partners for cheaper? im sure incubating companies would love some value here --even though I'm pretty sure they pay the fund's legal tab

[Anonymous User]

With those points in mind, do you feel like you have a lot left to learn as a mid level or could you step out soon and do the same job as your firm's partners for cheaper?

The learning curve is not nearly as steep, so as a midlevel I'm expected to lead deals and manage them, as well as manage the client. As the client matures, the issues get more complex. As the client decides to do an M&A or an IPO, there's certainly room for the partner to step back in and take a more active role.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior at WSGR/Goodwin/Cooley/Fenwick/etc and happy to answer questions if anyone wants the perspective of someone who is relatively new to the practice area.

So far I like it, but it's a steep learning curve for a junior IMO unless you have a biz background. As others have said, you are more involved with the client's actual business and need to learn how it works. For example, I've done a lot of diligence on licensing/IP issues and have had to pick that stuff up as I go along with the other things you have to learn as a junior.

One thing that also sucks as a junior is these clients can be very unorganized. When youre doing a disclosure schedule, for example, you will often have to more or less harass clients to get you certain documents/contracts. On the company side, there is rarely an in house lawyer to work with on these kinda of things, which can get annoying.

It's fun, though. Would definitely recommend. Feel very optimistic about exit ops and general career prospects, but obviously all of that is susceptible to market fluctuations and what not. Hoping there's not another dot com crash!

How did you express your interest in the field during OCI/interviews?

Junior here.

I had/have a legit interest in the practice area, so I just expressed that in an honest way. I didn't have any experience. I have friends that work for emerging growth companies and do some small things like read CrunchBase or hackernews, but at the end of the day I just got along well w/ the people at my firm and expressed a sincere interest in the work.

I think you need to be a bit more outgoing personality-wise at these firms. In law school, I summered at a white shoe NY firm and the personality types are very different. People are a bit less socially awkward here, I would say. But that could also be firm specific and may not be a fair generalizaiton.

[Anonymous User]

Hi, thanks for doing this. I'm a 3L who accepted an offer at one of WSGR/Fenwick/Cooley/Gunderson after having missed on them during 2L OCI (they were my top choices then).

Because I didn't have the summer there I feel a little more in the dark about the health of the industry--do any of the SV VC lawyers in this thread have any comments on the general health of the business/business ecosystem going into the next year or so?

[PwnLaw]

Hi, thanks for doing this. I'm a 3L who accepted an offer at one of WSGR/Fenwick/Cooley/Gunderson after having missed on them during 2L OCI (they were my top choices then).

Because I didn't have the summer there I feel a little more in the dark about the health of the industry--do any of the SV VC lawyers in this thread have any comments on the general health of the business/business ecosystem going into the next year or so?

General feeling is that things are going very very well and people are somewhat concerned that we are in the midst of another bubble. The debate on the matter is going fast and furious right now and no one really knows, but times are great at the moment.

I speak as someone who was a lawyer that now runs a VC-backed company.

[Anonymous User]

OP.

I always joke with my coworkers that you know it's a bubble when there are a bunch of delivery type services popping up. Same thing happened back in the 2000s.

Are we in a bubble? Not sure it's easy to say one way or another. If we are in a bubble, it's not "because of us." It's because of low interest rates that are inflating the value of assets like real estate and equity. The hope is that interest rates will rise gradually, so it'll be like slowly letting air out of a balloon.

[UpandDown97]

If OP or any one in this field is still around, I would love to get a PM convo going.

[Danteshek]

Anonymous User wrote:
I legit don't understand why companies use yall instead of bankers to negotiate term sheets. Is there something difficult from a legal perspective about warrants, liquidity preferences, option pools, etc. that I'm missing where you add value above people good with math?



all that shit was invented by lawyers and VCs for their own benefit. it actually really hurts startups and makes them more likely to fail. not all start up capital is raised this way

[Anonymous User]

Do you see many of your colleagues, if any, make the move to the startup/VC side, either as in-house, advisors, investors, or in a non-legal role?

[Danteshek]

Do you see many of your colleagues, if any, make the move to the startup/VC side, either as in-house, advisors, investors, or in a non-legal role?

Not really. The best advisors to startups are people who actually started their own companies and succeeded at it. Not over-pedigreed do nothing lawyers. If you want to get into this I suggest you find a decent mentor who has started successful companies and forget about law firms (and VCs for that matter - they are almost as bad).

[Anonymous User]

But don't overthink it. I wasn't gunning for this job the day I was born. And I didn't realize I wanted it until I was midway through my first year in big law.

Sorry to bump this thread but it came up in my search and it seems to be on point for my question. I am sure OP is long gone but maybe someone else can help answer this question.

My interest in VC/Emerging Company work began during my 3L year due to some classes I took and meeting people in the field.

However, I had an offer lined up with a v5 in NYC that I more or less liked and I felt like I should see that through.

Now I am a few months in and it is becoming clear I don't want to do this work at this firm (Corp Fin/M&A for big, public clients).

Is it feasible to lateral to a firm to do VC/Emerging Company work? Am I better off sticking it out here for 2 years or will that pigeon hole me in terms of practice group skill set?

Is it a good idea to try and lateral to a CA based firm's office in NYC and make the switch to CA later or just go right for CA?


Any help is appreciated, thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone?

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

I'm the junior that posted on the previous page that summered at a white shoe NYC firm (v10 of it matters) and switched to one of WSGR/Fenwick/Cooley, etc as a 3L.

You can make the move, but probably need to be a second year or third year. I don't think you will be totally pigeon holed, but I've noticed some of the laterals from NY firms end up doing a lot of cap markets stuff at our firm. Maybe focus on M&A if you're not already-it is more broadly applicable than cap markets IMO.

FWIW, these firms are actively hiring. My firm has a standing 20k referral bonus right now.

Good luck. I do think this practice can be a lot more rewarding than nyc big law if you're into it.

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

I'm the junior that posted on the previous page that summered at a white shoe NYC firm (v10 of it matters) and switched to one of WSGR/Fenwick/Cooley, etc as a 3L.

You can make the move, but probably need to be a second year or third year. I don't think you will be totally pigeon holed, but I've noticed some of the laterals from NY firms end up doing a lot of cap markets stuff at our firm. Maybe focus on M&A if you're not already-it is more broadly applicable than cap markets IMO.

FWIW, these firms are actively hiring. My firm has a standing 20k referral bonus right now.

Good luck. I do think this practice can be a lot more rewarding than nyc big law if you're into it.

This sounds about right, but I think he could even make the jump after 1 year. Go on the career sections of the websites for Fenwick, Gunderson, Wilson, Goodwin (I didn't see one for that level for Cooley but maybe it's there), they all seem to be hiring folks from class of 2014 to corporate spots (mostly in CA). Hell, if you want to move now, I would even try applying now to one or two and seeing if you're prestigious V5 credentials gets them interested in someone with a little less experience. You're main problem will be if the VC market takes a dive (which could correlate to the public stock market taking a dive, as exits seem less quick and less lucrative), so your main worry is whether things are still humming a year or two from now. Of course, if you make the jump and things take a hit, you might have wished you never left your well heeled V5, either way . . .

[Anonymous User]

Yeah you're right. I just looked at my firm's intranet, and we are hiring 2014 grads actually, so OP should maybe go ahead and give it a shot.

OP, what location are you thinking? If you want to stay in NYC, I would probably look at the following: Goodwin Procter, Gunderson, Cooley, and maybe Lowenstein Sandler. I don't think WSGR has a very strong presence there and Fenwick doesn't have an office there (midlevel, feel free to correct me here, if you have different opinions about east coast presence of the firms).

But, I think if you really are passionate about getting into this area, you should just make the jump to CA. The startup and VC scene is still dominated by northern California (both SF and SV). I think laterals at my firm are given ~6 weeks to study for and take the bar. Long term, I think it would be a better move to begin your career in Nor Cal.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your responses.

I was born and raised in the Bay Area so I am focused on getting back there. I much prefer SF to SV, though. I know that might not be possible but it would be my preference.

FWIW, I took and passed the CA Bar already. I am taking the NY bar in February.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think there is much of a disadvantage to being in SF if you want to be there. Maybe a slight disadvantage, but I think the SF offices of most of these firms have gotten pretty big (i know ours has and has plenty of heavy hitter partners that could help advance your career).

Agreed re: SF vs. SV. SV sucks.