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I've seen a few threads on this topic, but they all seem to say it is extremely difficult to do, but that seems a little vague to me.

What are the chances if you're at a T14 school, seeking SA in DC/NYC?

More specifically then, how hard is it to go to more elite firms, e.g. Wachtell, Boies Schiller, Cravath, etc.

And if anyone who has gotten interviews or 1L SA offers, what was the timeline like for that process? Did all firms wait for first semester grades to be released?

1. Lol T8
2. NYC/DC are probably the two hardest markets to get a 1L SA in.

Unless you're a minority or have a strong technical background, chances are slim for getting any firm, let alone the top ones.

1) get incredible grades
2) Hope you have a preftigious/impressive background
3) Massmail every firm in those markets on 12/1/2014
4) Hope
5) If you have a newtwork, have them go to bat for you. Grades are more important than networking right now though.
5) If you get interviews, don't be aspie
7) Enjoy bigflaw.

checkers wrote:1. Lol T8
2. NYC/DC are probably the two hardest markets to get a 1L SA in.

Unless you're a minority or have a strong technical background, chances are slim for getting any firm, let alone the top ones.

DC 1L SAs are for patent litigators with PhDs in Bio or EE/CS primarily.

1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

lol "T8"

They're not good for anybody in any market, much less DC or NYC. If you have good grades, W/E, and URM status, you're in better shape but it's never a guarantee anywhere. There are way too many applicants for too few positions. I would apply. Don't expect anything though.

definitely challenging if not a minority. I managed to snag one, which was I think about my 6-7th CB (and my last one, was just about to accept unpaid PI gig).

Stretch any connections you have to any secondary market and blow those up in the interview, you need to convince them you would never in a million years want to work in NY because it's terrible and everything about it sucks, and oh yea Cincinnati is the greatest city ever because . . . .

TX is the easiest, and if you're from there at a t8 you're golden, but if not from there it's just as hard or harder than anywhere else

Minneapolis has a lot of 1L SAs, Ohio has a decent amount in Cleveland/Cinci. Also: ATL, Birmingham, KC, Indy, Wilmington have a good amount. Maybe not a lot, but I also had a shot in Des Moines, and know someone that got one in Lincoln.

If you have IP, you might have a decent shot in NY, Boston, DC, NorCal/SoCal, Minneapolis (depending on what your background is)

NY non-IP SAs are pretty much reserved for minorities, but you can also try the Skadden scholar program or whatever its called, don't need to be minority for that



Note: In my experience, grades are not an important factor for this. You will do all of your CBs before grades are out anyways, and some firms even make offers before grades. I had below median grades at CCNPBN, meanwhile top 10% bros struck out.

Also, it might not be as big of a deal as you think (other than the $20-30k obv). Grades are much more important for getting the 2L SA, and better grades are >>>>> 1L SA come OCI time. Employers will be impressed, but won't be dipping down for you as a non-URM just because you worked at a decent firm

Like others have said, for major markets you need to be eligible for a diversity spot or have the right technical background just to have a chance at firms. Otherwise, probably not happening.

Do you have a "home" secondary market you can target? If so, and getting an SA spot is more desirable to you than being in either of those two cities next summer (it should be), give up on NY/DC firms and target that market. This is by far your best chance at a firm job if you're not technical or able to increase a firm's diversity.


Edit: scooped by previous post regarding secondary market firm 1L SAs. Also should have said, as that person did, grades are basically unimportant from what I've heard from people. 1) do you genuinely want to be in that city 2) are you a jerk or weirdo? These are more important.

subtle wrote:1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

past SEO here. how much do you think this will help me in applying to 1L sa spots?

If your dad is a big client of cravath then it have him make a phone call. if not then you're fucked.

arklaw13 wrote:If your dad is a big client of cravath then it have him make a phone call. if not then you're fucked.

Can recommend. Similar situation got me my 1L SA.

Anonymous User wrote:

subtle wrote:1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

past SEO here. how much do you think this will help me in applying to 1L sa spots?

A lot. There are a ton of SEOs at my school, and of those who wanted to work at a firm, only one wasn't able to find one.

tmanthedman wrote:What are the chances if you're at a T14 school, seeking SA in DC/NYC?

More specifically then, how hard is it to go to more elite firms, e.g. Wachtell, Boies Schiller, Cravath, etc.

Getting one of those firms in a primary market is nearly impossible.

As others have said, target secondary markets where you have ties and take advantage of diversity positions if you're eligible (a minority, including asian, or LGBT). If you're lucky, you might get an SA in a satellite office of an elite firm.

SEOs seem to do unusually well at getting SAs, though I don't know much more than that.

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Lol T8. Wachtell doesn't even interview/hire 2Ls at UVA. So that should tell you what your chances of landing a 1L SA there coming from UVA are.

subtle wrote:1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

SEOs get many preexisting relationship 1L gigs, but others exist and SEOs don't just run the table on the diversit spots. Basically all the SEOs at my school applied to Skadden. Only 1 got it and they just happened to be very close friends with a Skadden SEO who the firm is big on. Multiple SEO NY firms had 3-4 non-SEO 1LSAs, although a lot of the ones I met were friends of that firm's SEOs. FWIW my firm had a couple white 1LSAs, one of whom goes to Brooklyn Law.

The gigs are out there, but you have to basically email every recruiter you can get info for and drop tons of resumes just to have a chance at maybe filling a late opening or sniping one of the few non-diverse spots firms have.

Anonymous User wrote:

subtle wrote:1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

SEOs get many preexisting relationship 1L gigs, but others exist and SEOs don't just run the table on the diversit spots. Basically all the SEOs at my school applied to Skadden. Only 1 got it and they just happened to be very close friends with a Skadden SEO who the firm is big on. Multiple SEO NY firms had 3-4 non-SEO 1LSAs, although a lot of the ones I met were friends of that firm's SEOs. FWIW my firm had a couple white 1LSAs, one of whom goes to Brooklyn Law.

The gigs are out there, but you have to basically email every recruiter you can get info for and drop tons of resumes just to have a chance at maybe filling a late opening or sniping one of the few non-diverse spots firms have.

I never said that all of the offers will go to SEOs. Just in terms of numbers, that's not possible. There aren't enough of us in the country and there aren't enough of us who want 1L positions. Also, I'm pretty sure I know which SEO you're talking about for Skadden.

All I'm saying is, especially at SEO partner firms, a lot of those spots will go to SEOs. My firm, for example, only interviewed SEOs.

This is probably a terrible question, but what does SEO stand for?

Don't bank on any biglaw SA position.

< Top 10% at T20 and I had to massmail and network to land V50. I had 32 screeners and 8 callbacks (highest being "V30") and ultimately accepted V50 SA position. V20 requires top grades from T14 + luck + good interviewing skills. V5 requires top grades (top 5-10%) from T6 + luck + good interviewing skills + luck + more luck.

Go to B-school.

subtle wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

subtle wrote:1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

SEOs get many preexisting relationship 1L gigs, but others exist and SEOs don't just run the table on the diversit spots. Basically all the SEOs at my school applied to Skadden. Only 1 got it and they just happened to be very close friends with a Skadden SEO who the firm is big on. Multiple SEO NY firms had 3-4 non-SEO 1LSAs, although a lot of the ones I met were friends of that firm's SEOs. FWIW my firm had a couple white 1LSAs, one of whom goes to Brooklyn Law.

The gigs are out there, but you have to basically email every recruiter you can get info for and drop tons of resumes just to have a chance at maybe filling a late opening or sniping one of the few non-diverse spots firms have.

I never said that all of the offers will go to SEOs. Just in terms of numbers, that's not possible. There aren't enough of us in the country and there aren't enough of us who want 1L positions. Also, I'm pretty sure I know which SEO you're talking about for Skadden.

All I'm saying is, especially at SEO partner firms, a lot of those spots will go to SEOs. My firm, for example, only interviewed SEOs.

Aside from the SEO kids, you also have all the AnBryce kids at NYU and most of them have the V5 on lock. For example, Davis Polk only hires 1Ls who are Anbrycers.

Anonymous User wrote:

subtle wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

subtle wrote:1L SA positions are hard to get even if you're a minority. The issue is that most firms that have a 1L spot (which isn't even close to all of them) have just that: one spot (with the exception of Skadden). Realistically speaking, a lot of the offers will go to SEOs.

SEOs get many preexisting relationship 1L gigs, but others exist and SEOs don't just run the table on the diversit spots. Basically all the SEOs at my school applied to Skadden. Only 1 got it and they just happened to be very close friends with a Skadden SEO who the firm is big on. Multiple SEO NY firms had 3-4 non-SEO 1LSAs, although a lot of the ones I met were friends of that firm's SEOs. FWIW my firm had a couple white 1LSAs, one of whom goes to Brooklyn Law.

The gigs are out there, but you have to basically email every recruiter you can get info for and drop tons of resumes just to have a chance at maybe filling a late opening or sniping one of the few non-diverse spots firms have.

I never said that all of the offers will go to SEOs. Just in terms of numbers, that's not possible. There aren't enough of us in the country and there aren't enough of us who want 1L positions. Also, I'm pretty sure I know which SEO you're talking about for Skadden.

All I'm saying is, especially at SEO partner firms, a lot of those spots will go to SEOs. My firm, for example, only interviewed SEOs.

Aside from the SEO kids, you also have all the AnBryce kids at NYU and most of them have the V5 on lock. For example, Davis Polk only hires 1Ls who are Anbrycers.

Yep. Forgot about that.

Anonymous User wrote: Minneapolis has a lot of 1L SAs...

Is that a joke? Minneapolis probably has less than a dozen 1L SA spots in the entire city, about half of which are reserved for "diversity" candidates, and you're competing with kids from four local law schools, plus those from the tri-state area, plus T14 bros coming back home. It's extremely competitive.

I go to a T6, not a URM, some w/e, and had almost perfect 1L fall grades and didn't get an offer at NY firms (although I did spring for a judge early so maybe that's why as I should have been more patient). Don't bank on it.

Got one in a major market. Things I did:

(1) Applied first thing on the morning of Dec. 1
(2) Unique, targeted coverletters to each firm (they actually read these)
(3) Some firms asked me to check in with grades when I had them, others called to schedule CBs 2-4 weeks after I applied
(4) My stats: White / HYS / interesting Fortune 500 WE prior to law school
(5) Got CBs from 3 out of 12 applications, and received an offer from 1 (V25).

To conclude -- it can be done, but you have to have some things going for you, and you have to get a little lucky. For what it's worth I received CBs/offers from 6/6 of the firms that I re-applied to during 2L recruiting, so all is certainly not lost if you get shutout this summer.

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