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3L at a T60 with median grades and law review here. Lived in the northeast all of my life and would love to move south. Have discovered during law school that I hate living in the north. Recently, lifelong best friend moved to Charlotte and I've never seen him happier.

What would be the best market in the south to consider mass mailing to? I know the conventional wisdom here and I'm willing to waste my time. So give me your best shot, I can't live with myself if I don't try going south.

Honestly considering a different industry altogether if I can go to SC or NC. Undergrad in Accounting/Finance.

Houston and Dallas are less insular, but with the exception of Latham, they generally don't take 3Ls.

They're all insular for people w your credentials and background

Mass mailing is gonna be a waste

Start networking yesterday bro

Getting a job in my city won't be impossible, my network is strong.

Would it be easier to move as a lateral?

Just mass mail literally every firm you can find. You miss 100 percent of the mails you don't mass. Or something. Probably dead in the water given the school/grades combo but you only live once.

If you're cool leaving law, you should be able to get some sort of low level job at an energy company in TX. Office jobs in Houston, jobs in the field out in Richardson and shit. Pay will be meh, bennies will be amazing and hours will def be less than biglaw.

Hiring at real companies with HR staff isn't nearly as stupid about "ties" as biglawyers are. They would see you interviewing and flying out there as a huge demonstration of your commitment, if they even care

Post removed.

I've always assumed there's a rough inverse relationship between desirability and insularity, which makes sense if you think about it.

So, somewhere like Atlanta is going to be less insular, somewhere like Augusta is going to be more insular, and somewhere like Valdosta is going to be so insular that firms will just trash your application unless you grew up in the area.

A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

Two friends of mine got Skadden and Simpson in Houston as 3Ls. It's not impossible but you need a good reason.

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

It's also asked by Atl BigLaw firms.

I say that merely to point out that people ITT are grossly underestimating how insular Atl is.

Antipodean is right that Atl is less insular than Macon, but that's the diffence between a 1 percent chance versus none. And someone who's median at a Northeast T50 is effectively dead in the water

Anonymous User wrote:

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

It's also asked by Atl BigLaw firms.

I say that merely to point out that people ITT are grossly underestimating how insular Atl is.

Antipodean is right that Atl is less insular than Macon, but that's the diffence between a 1 percent chance versus none. And someone who's median at a Northeast T50 is effectively dead in the water

Agreed.

Also, OP is very very wrong if he thinks that the firms are less academically rigorous and just insular. You won't be able to land a job just by getting past the insular-ity

They take the top students at flagships and T14. As someone who worked in two of these southern tertiary markets this summer, almost everyone I worked with was from UVA (one was from vandy and on LR). Look elsewhere for a job

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

This was also a question in my central Florida interviews. Followed by "where did you go to college?" (in-state) and then "so why did you decide to go to law school in the northeast?"

The distrust is real.

People have asked ab my dad in interviews

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

Multiple TX firms asked where my wife went to high school (I'm not from TX but she is). Not sure if that was a test of her ties or whether I had made her up or what.

BigZuck wrote:

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

Multiple TX firms asked where my wife went to high school (I'm not from TX but she is). Not sure if that was a test of her ties or whether I had made her up or what.

It's a good proxy for what caste you are in.

grrrstick wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

Multiple TX firms asked where my wife went to high school (I'm not from TX but she is). Not sure if that was a test of her ties or whether I had made her up or what.

It's a good proxy for what caste you are in.

Wait, you didn't go to St. Marks or Highland Park? Please leave.

Greenhill is also an acceptable answer.

This is purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth. But I lived in a large southern city for about five years before applying to law school. I owned (and still own) a home in this city, and my significant other has a long-term job there. I went to HYS (grades around median) and mass mailed every NALP firm in the region and a number of non-NALP firms. This resulted in two screeners and zero callbacks. And I got grilled about my ties in both screeners. I'm just like, "I own a home here for crying out loud! What more do you want me to do to prove that I'd like to stay in this region?" I really got the impression that they wanted people who grew up in the state and had all their family in the state. So I hate to dash people's dreams, but if median at HYS plus home ownership and a spouse in the city isn't good enough to land a job in a large southern market, I'm not optimistic about median at a T60 plus essentially no ties. So mass mail if you want, but I would make sure you have a backup option.

I know plenty of people who went to T50 schools who work in Texas. Many of them lateraled in mid-career. Two of my supervising attorneys have gone to a T50 (one in a neighboring state and another from the Northeast) and came here to work after law school. I also studied for the bar with a girl who did the same. But they came and were willing to starve for a few months while they hustled and made connections. Don't expect to walk into a Vault 100 cuz that ain't going to happen. I also know people who were top half at a T14 who had a job lined up after law school. But again, they were top half at a T14. I also know an entire ocean of UT, UH, SMU, Texas Tech, South Texas, and so on.

Texas is moderately insular, but most markets are. I grew up in the Mountain West/Pacific Northwest, but I went to law school in Austin so I didn't even get a nibble from the firms I mass mailed in Denver and Seattle. Again, I was from there. I don't want to ponder my chances of getting a job in Orlando or Boston, which are cities that I have never set foot in.

Anonymous User wrote:This is purely anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth. But I lived in a large southern city for about five years before applying to law school. I owned (and still own) a home in this city, and my significant other has a long-term job there. I went to HYS (grades around median) and mass mailed every NALP firm in the region and a number of non-NALP firms. This resulted in two screeners and zero callbacks. And I got grilled about my ties in both screeners.

I'm kind of surprised you had that experience. I know someone from CCN who got 1L a job in a very insular southern market with no ties other than a significant other with ties to the region. But maybe cites differ in what count as ties.

Anyone have information about insular-ity in lateral hiring as opposed to straight out of law school?

A cursory look at "big" Southern firms seems like there aren't many transplants from the North at any level of experience.

Another anecdote: I was born and raised in the southeast, went to college there, then UVA where I got medianish grades. I worked there before law school and came back for 1L summer. I mass mailed the whole south (seriously, everywhere), applied to every symplicity post from the south, and sunk 95% of my OGI bids on the south. Resulted in 4 callbacks and one (by the skin of my teeth, judging by the timing) offer.

I mean, by all means mass mail the south dude. But you need to be feeling the pressure right now 1/3 of the way into 3L. Mass mail everywhere and start hustling.

Anonymous User wrote:

grrrstick wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

MarkinKansasCity wrote:A common question in St. Louis biglaw interviews is "What high school did you go to?"

Not kidding.

Multiple TX firms asked where my wife went to high school (I'm not from TX but she is). Not sure if that was a test of her ties or whether I had made her up or what.

It's a good proxy for what caste you are in.

Wait, you didn't go to St. Marks or Highland Park? Please leave.

Fuck Dallas. Fuck Dallas so much.

We should probably make a "TIES ARE FUCKING IMPORTANT" thread and sticky it in the law school application area, or whatever that part of the forum is called. I feel like this factor is grossly underestimated by most applicants.