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So I go to a decent school, good connections, no debt. I just want to get a job, any job. Even decent doc review. I bombed 1L, have a 2.91, hopefully by the time I graduate it will be above 3.0. My school is curved at a 3.15-3.2

What do i do? How do i use the time going forward to overcome my grades?


PS- ideally, I'm looking at court attorney positions with low level judges, maybe some PI if i can game my connections enough.

You're going to have a steep uphill battle, but the fact that you have no debt helps. You need to find part-time work now, and continue to be working up until the point you graduate. Clerk at any firm you can, work for PI organizations, volunteer for bar associations - anything to put practical experience on your resume/flesh it out. Get involved - goes without saying, but you need to network your a** off, speak to any attorney who will talk with you, get involved with committees of local bar associations, meet people.

As an aside, court attorney positions might be a stretch for you, because even those are grade-competitive. Your best bet is going to be smaller firms or anywhere that you have a connection to. And there is no such thing as "decent" doc review, at least in terms of advancing your career.

Can connections overcome those grades?

Anonymous User wrote:Can connections overcome those grades?

You're asking people here to speculate...they can, and people from the bottom of the class do still find jobs. Obviously that's no guarantee that you will, and you should consider the alternatives of beginning to search for non-legal jobs and/or dropping out (perhaps less of a consideration if you have no debt.)

Anonymous User wrote:You're going to have a steep uphill battle, but the fact that you have no debt helps. You need to find part-time work now, and continue to be working up until the point you graduate. Clerk at any firm you can, work for PI organizations, volunteer for bar associations - anything to put practical experience on your resume/flesh it out. Get involved - goes without saying, but you need to network your a** off, speak to any attorney who will talk with you, get involved with committees of local bar associations, meet people.

As an aside, court attorney positions might be a stretch for you, because even those are grade-competitive. Your best bet is going to be smaller firms or anywhere that you have a connection to. And there is no such thing as "decent" doc review, at least in terms of advancing your career.

Make sure your networking is focused and planned. Keep careful track of your connections & every interation. Make sure to follow up & build the relationships. Ask for more contacts, then follow up on those.

Anonymous User wrote:Can connections overcome those grades?

Depends. Are you calling decent UT, or decent American?

If you're at the later, drop out. At the former? More reasonable.

More like decent american...not dropping out as I'm one semester away from graduation, might as well get my jd. No debt, as I said before...totally open to "jd preferred" jobs, however.

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Can you get a job in law with anything below a 3.0?

Small firm? Will they hire you if you have a good resume, work experience? How difficult is it to get a 3.0 in law school? What percentage are getting a 3.0 and higher in most graduating classes?

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i have a lot of government on my resume, and decent relationships with judges.

I have not much higher than you, OP (3.006) and I snagged interviews with The Bronx Defenders, The Legal Aid Society, Hennepin County PD, Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, Florida Rural Legal Services, and more. PD/Legal Aid (with the exception of NH PD, lol) does NOT care about grades. It's all about demonstrated commitment to public service, Spanish language ability, interviewing skills, writing samples, etc. GL!

Thanks so much for that. makes me feel better...i guess the other little wrinkle in my story is that i do have a condition(hand injury which greatly affects typing speed) for which i really should have extra time on exams, and I didn't take advantage of it until last semester of 2L. That is (I feel) a reason my grades are as low as they are. I can hope to graduate with over a 3.0.

Is it a bad idea to take doc review for like a year while applying for other jobs with better grades?

again, i have to say, i wouldn't even be in law school if i had debt or other serious money worries. I am in a really good spot when it comes to money for now. I just want to be in a good career 5-7 years from now. I don't care that i won't be making much now or for the next little while.

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks so much for that. makes me feel better...i guess the other little wrinkle in my story is that i do have a condition(hand injury which greatly affects typing speed) for which i really should have extra time on exams, and I didn't take advantage of it until last semester of 2L. That is (I feel) a reason my grades are as low as they are. I can hope to graduate with over a 3.0.

Is it a bad idea to take doc review for like a year while applying for other jobs with better grades?

again, i have to say, i wouldn't even be in law school if i had debt or other serious money worries. I am in a really good spot when it comes to money for now. I just want to be in a good career 5-7 years from now. I don't care that i won't be making much now or for the next little while.

I am the anon with the 3.006. Do you speak other languages, particularly Spanish? What did you do your 1L summer? Your 2L summer? Did you do school-year internships too? If not, start doing pro bono work NOW. Volunteering is a great way to build your network, get relevant experience, and help folks in need.

I've heard from firm folks that doc review is thought of as a scarlet letter. My 1L public interest summer supervisor did doc review and it did not seem to hold her back, however.

PSJD, Idealist, and BYU Jobbank are GREAT sources of PI jerbs that are not grades conscious at all. Good luck, anon!

Prosecution in underserved area.

State district court clerk in underserved area.

Small firm jobs in my area are much more competitive than those two types of jobs, but all you need is one place where the partners like you. Try to write some articles on family law (or some other area prevalent in small firms), take a bunch of courses in it, then leverage that in interviews to show you're interested and good at it.

smallfirmassociate wrote:Prosecution in underserved area.

State district court clerk in underserved area.

Small firm jobs in my area are much more competitive than those two types of jobs, but all you need is one place where the partners like you. Try to write some articles on family law (or some other area prevalent in small firms), take a bunch of courses in it, then leverage that in interviews to show you're interested and good at it.

This is credited. Also look at PDs offices in underserved areas.

Anonymous User wrote:Can connections overcome those grades?

You shouldn't be asking that, you should already know because you have been networking and hustling like fuck. This tells me you're not doing what you should be doing.

DELG wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Can connections overcome those grades?

You shouldn't be asking that, you should already know because you have been networking and hustling like fuck. This tells me you're not doing what you should be doing.

Yes, you should be hustling like cray as well as working hard in your classes, as 3.0 is a typical floor for certain gov't positions.

Join all the local bar associations, attend networking events, go to CLEs, etc. Also, I echo the anon with the 3.006--do school-year externships and develop good relationships with supervisors who can go to bat for you or even hire you after graduation.

Regulus wrote:

tier3 wrote:Can you get a job in law with anything below a 3.0?

Small firm? Will they hire you if you have a good resume, work experience? How difficult is it to get a 3.0 in law school? What percentage are getting a 3.0 and higher in most graduating classes?

1) This.
2) Each school is different. As the OP said, his school is curved around a 3.15~3.20. However, other schools (such as Northwestern) curve around a 4.15. Accordingly, the percentage of the class that graduates with a 3.0 or higher depends on the school and its curve. Also, the ability to find a legal job with well-below-median grades differs by school too; employers are much more willing to reach deep into the class at HYS than they are at Indiana Tech, for example.

Anonymous User wrote:I have not much higher than you, OP (3.006) and I snagged interviews with The Bronx Defenders, The Legal Aid Society, Hennepin County PD, Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, Florida Rural Legal Services, and more. PD/Legal Aid (with the exception of NH PD, lol) does NOT care about grades. It's all about demonstrated commitment to public service, Spanish language ability, interviewing skills, writing samples, etc. GL!

I'm surprised that there are local PD's offices that care about writing skills. Local criminal trial courts are probably one of the few areas in this profession where you see practically no written anything. And to the extent written motions are done, they are usually cookie-cutter copy and paste motions that are orally argued at a hearing. I interned at a PD's office during my 2L year, and prepared literally the only substantive motion that the attorney I was working with had the entire year.

Also, it's a bit of an overstatement to say that these places don't care about grades at all. It's not a primary concern, but in bad economies when there are hiring freezes, they wind up with a billion tipity top applicants from t14s who also demonstrate a strong commitment to public service. In that situation, you're much less likely to get picked with a bad GPA from a mediocre school. In other words, you probably have a shot now (if you can demonstrate commitment to public service), since hiring has ramped up everywhere else, but when the economy tanks again, you'll be SOL. Hope that we don't go into another recession by the time you've passed the bar.

Be geographically flexible and willing to work in rural america. It's not quite that simple but it's almost that simple.

I got a job with a 3.15 but most off my interviews were picked up without ever sending a transcript. I did not list my grades on my resume. They knew I graduated from a local school that they respected. They could have cared less about grades. Had a couple interviews in Denver but offers in towns from 10k to 100k people. My current boss has no idea what my college or law school GPA was.

You're still in school so you will want to get practical experience on your resume. Small towns need criminal defense and family law attorneys, also attorneys who can do a little bit of everything and can talk to normal joe clients. Can you work for 10 bucks an hours at a small firm near your school that can give you this type of experience?

Doing so would be 1000 times more helpful than raising your 2.91 to a 3.05.

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Be geographically flexible and willing to work in rural america. It's not quite that simple but it's almost that simple.

The ABA article you're basing this post off of is kind of shit, and not very practical. Yes, there is a huge need for attorneys in rural areas. But the people who live there are poor and live large distances between each other, where you can't just set-up shop, expect to cover overhead expenses, and earn a halfway livable salary. You especially can't do this when you're fresh out of law school with no practical experience.

Moreover, the legal employers that are located in rural america really care about ties. It's one thing if you grew up in X city with 10k people. It's another to just apply there for a job without ever having been there. Employers aren't stupid, and they realize that a person who is not from there is going to be unhappy with his personal life and leave within a couple years (which essentially costs the employers money in training in exchange for the person leaving by the time that he could actually generate the employer some money).

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You're still in school so you will want to get practical experience on your resume. Small towns need criminal defense and family law attorneys, also attorneys who can do a little bit of everything and can talk to normal joe clients. Can you work for 10 bucks an hours at a small firm near your school that can give you this type of experience?

Doing so would be 1000 times more helpful than raising your 2.91 to a 3.05.

This is legit advice. It doesn't even need to be a small town. "Clerking" for a smaller law firm is pretty much how most law students (i.e. who didn't attend top schools) find work at a firm after graduation. If you can make some contacts through networking (through bar associations, reaching out to alums from your school, etc), you might be able to get one of those law clerk positions at a small firm. If you do good work for the firm, the firm might hire at some point when it has the need for an additional attorney. Even if the firm doesn't have the need for you, if you do really good work, the partners of the firm at which you clerked might recommend you to partners who they know at other firms (which will get your foot in the door at the other firm that is hiring).

Thanks everybody for the kind words. I'm going to hustle my best and not get my hopes down...yet. I'm going to do my best with connections in government, and hope for the best...Also looking for an externship.

Unfortunately, the farthest I can go is Long Island. I'm married and stuck in NYC, no chance of leaving.

Regulus wrote:

tier3 wrote:Can you get a job in law with anything below a 3.0?

Small firm? Will they hire you if you have a good resume, work experience? How difficult is it to get a 3.0 in law school? What percentage are getting a 3.0 and higher in most graduating classes?

1) This.
2) Each school is different. As the OP said, his school is curved around a 3.15~3.20. However, other schools (such as Northwestern) curve around a 4.15. Accordingly, the percentage of the class that graduates with a 3.0 or higher depends on the school and its curve. Also, the ability to find a legal job with well-below-median grades differs by school too; employers are much more willing to reach deep into the class at HYS than they are at Indiana Tech, for example.

STOP TELLING PEOPLE. There are still smaller firms out there who have not realized this!!

XxSpyKEx wrote:

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Be geographically flexible and willing to work in rural america. It's not quite that simple but it's almost that simple.

The ABA article you're basing this post off of is kind of shit, and not very practical. Yes, there is a huge need for attorneys in rural areas. But the people who live there are poor and live large distances between each other, where you can't just set-up shop, expect to cover overhead expenses, and earn a halfway livable salary. You especially can't do this when you're fresh out of law school with no practical experience.

Moreover, the legal employers that are located in rural america really care about ties. It's one thing if you grew up in X city with 10k people. It's another to just apply there for a job without ever having been there. Employers aren't stupid, and they realize that a person who is not from there is going to be unhappy with his personal life and leave within a couple years (which essentially costs the employers money in training in exchange for the person leaving by the time that he could actually generate the employer some money).

I'm not basing anything off some ABA article that I haven't read. I'm basing it off my life and the lives of other practicing attorneys in rural america. Many of the problems you point out are real, but my point is that the competition for jobs in in rural america is much less intense than in metro america. Grades hardly matter and usually don't matter at all. Write a cover letter about how you want to live out there and offer to drive over for an informational interview. Boom, screener.

This is relevant to the thread because OP has a 2.91.