Clarification on Biglaw Hours Forum

[MKC]

JFC.

I swear sometimes that the legal employment forum is worse than either the 0L's or the Lounge.

So tags are back now, huh? (DF)

[sublime]

..

[Dafaq]

Also, if you got on the good side of the right people early on, they would protect you from boring assignments or stupid fire drills….

That guidance is a solid 180. Getting on the right side of partners often comes down to; cooperative, research and especially good writing.

[Mal Reynolds]

Also, if you got on the good side of the right people early on, they would protect you from boring assignments or stupid fire drills….

That guidance is a solid 180. Getting on the right side of partners often comes down to; cooperative, research and especially good writing.

This post is ironic.

[Johann]

getting on the "right side" of a partner also sucks. you get pulled in on almost everything and are swamped as fuck. and when you do all your work for one partner, it's tough to tell them you don't have capacity because he knows your full workload. cool this work is so interesting but i still have 70 hours of it. there is no winning - stop pretending.

[Dafaq]

If it’s just one partner, that could be problematic. If its 2 or 3 partners in particular, they somehow work it out. But even then a week under 50 hours is a unicorn.

[PMan99]

its always so depressing reading about this

any stories of 3rd years or something beating this absurd inefficiency? Maybe living 10 minutes from work and not coming in or staying in the office long until you get the email that there's stuff to do?

Or do you never get to the point where people give you work via email if you aren't in the office?

Work for a firm that doesn't require facetime.

[alphasteve]

I'm a 2L with an SA lined up, trying to think ahead to how miserable I will be if I receive and accept an offer at my mid-sized firm in a major market after school. I'm doing the math and I must be misinformed about something because it just doesn't seem that bad.

If the billable hours requirement is 2000 and I bill 75% of my hours worked (which, from my informal research, seems realistic), that's 2666 total working hours. Assuming 2 weeks for vacation, that's 53 total working hours per week. If there's no vacation time, which I understand is very possible, that's only 51 hours a week. So what am I missing here? Where do people come up with these 70 hour weeks, unless there are actually 30 hours weeks on the other side to even things out? I'm not the type to push my billable hours very far past the minimum. I guess sometimes you are forced to?

If you can't tell, I don't know anything. Help me out here.

Lost it right there.

[Desert Fox]

I'm a 2L with an SA lined up, trying to think ahead to how miserable I will be if I receive and accept an offer at my mid-sized firm in a major market after school. I'm doing the math and I must be misinformed about something because it just doesn't seem that bad.

If the billable hours requirement is 2000 and I bill 75% of my hours worked (which, from my informal research, seems realistic), that's 2666 total working hours. Assuming 2 weeks for vacation, that's 53 total working hours per week. If there's no vacation time, which I understand is very possible, that's only 51 hours a week. So what am I missing here? Where do people come up with these 70 hour weeks, unless there are actually 30 hours weeks on the other side to even things out? I'm not the type to push my billable hours very far past the minimum. I guess sometimes you are forced to?

If you can't tell, I don't know anything. Help me out here.

Lost it right there.

If you can't take 2 weeks, ur at a sweatshop.

[Anonymous User]

getting on the "right side" of a partner also sucks. you get pulled in on almost everything and are swamped as fuck. and when you do all your work for one partner, it's tough to tell them you don't have capacity because he knows your full workload. cool this work is so interesting but i still have 70 hours of it. there is no winning - stop pretending.

That's why I said good side of the right partner. The "right partner" is the one who thinks that you really shouldn't work more than 50 hours a week because he wants you fresh and doing good work, so don't worry about it, he'll just give this annoying doc review project to one of the other associates.

I actually worked for a senior partner like this and it was magical.

[Lawyerrr]

I'm a 2L with an SA lined up, trying to think ahead to how miserable I will be if I receive and accept an offer at my mid-sized firm in a major market after school. I'm doing the math and I must be misinformed about something because it just doesn't seem that bad.

If the billable hours requirement is 2000 and I bill 75% of my hours worked (which, from my informal research, seems realistic), that's 2666 total working hours. Assuming 2 weeks for vacation, that's 53 total working hours per week. If there's no vacation time, which I understand is very possible, that's only 51 hours a week. So what am I missing here? Where do people come up with these 70 hour weeks, unless there are actually 30 hours weeks on the other side to even things out? I'm not the type to push my billable hours very far past the minimum. I guess sometimes you are forced to?

If you can't tell, I don't know anything. Help me out here.

Lost it right there.

If you can't take 2 weeks, ur at a sweatshop.

Agreed. Most associates take at least two weeks.

[Desert Fox]

I take at least 4, two of which I'm not totally unreachable. I'm taking my second week May 1, another in August and then Xmas. Already went to the Bahamas.

I figure biglaw standard vacay package is 3 weeks and my firm does unlimited, so that means more right?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 2L with an SA lined up, trying to think ahead to how miserable I will be if I receive and accept an offer at my mid-sized firm in a major market after school. I'm doing the math and I must be misinformed about something because it just doesn't seem that bad.

If the billable hours requirement is 2000 and I bill 75% of my hours worked (which, from my informal research, seems realistic), that's 2666 total working hours. Assuming 2 weeks for vacation, that's 53 total working hours per week. If there's no vacation time, which I understand is very possible, that's only 51 hours a week. So what am I missing here? Where do people come up with these 70 hour weeks, unless there are actually 30 hours weeks on the other side to even things out? I'm not the type to push my billable hours very far past the minimum. I guess sometimes you are forced to?

If you can't tell, I don't know anything. Help me out here.

Lost it right there.

If you can't take 2 weeks, ur at a sweatshop.

Agreed. Most associates take at least two weeks.

Absolutely. In that kind of work environment, its all the more important to take vacations and get away for awhile. When I see associates taking under 2 weeks of vacation, it just seems so misguided. The only reason I can think of for not taking most if not all my vacation days is being slow on hours and simply needing to be there to hit my targets. My firm is pretty clear that, so long as you are hitting your hours, you shouldn't hesitate to take your vacation time. I made the mistake of only taking about 1/2 my vacation time last year. Making sure to get my full 4 weeks away this year.

[Dafaq]

That's why I said good side of the right partner. The "right partner" is the one who thinks that you really shouldn't work more than 50 hours a week because he wants you fresh and doing good work, so don't worry about it, he'll just give this annoying doc review project to one of the other associates.

I actually worked for a senior partner like this and it was magical.

Working for one partner can be good but working for the right partners is also credited. The assignments are stimulating, especially those involving court cases and/or traveling. The upside is that those assignments shield you from the monotonous work. I’d rather work 55 hours on stimulating projects rather than 40 hours on doc review.

[Johann]

getting on the "right side" of a partner also sucks. you get pulled in on almost everything and are swamped as fuck. and when you do all your work for one partner, it's tough to tell them you don't have capacity because he knows your full workload. cool this work is so interesting but i still have 70 hours of it. there is no winning - stop pretending.

That's why I said good side of the right partner. The "right partner" is the one who thinks that you really shouldn't work more than 50 hours a week because he wants you fresh and doing good work, so don't worry about it, he'll just give this annoying doc review project to one of the other associates.

I actually worked for a senior partner like this and it was magical.

Yeah problem is there is more than 50 hours of substantive work for rainmaker partners. If he has unlimited substantive work that has to be done right, he's going to keep turning to his go-tos past 50 hours because it all has to be done right.

[BiglawAssociate]

So it wasn't really his work product...it's the fact that he's aspie as shit.

your definition of aspie doesn't seem to be medically related

tbf a lot of biglawyers seem aspie as shit and probably had tough childhoods getting bullied. but that guy takes the cake.

[Old Gregg]

I'm a 2L with an SA lined up, trying to think ahead to how miserable I will be if I receive and accept an offer at my mid-sized firm in a major market after school. I'm doing the math and I must be misinformed about something because it just doesn't seem that bad.

If the billable hours requirement is 2000 and I bill 75% of my hours worked (which, from my informal research, seems realistic), that's 2666 total working hours. Assuming 2 weeks for vacation, that's 53 total working hours per week. If there's no vacation time, which I understand is very possible, that's only 51 hours a week. So what am I missing here? Where do people come up with these 70 hour weeks, unless there are actually 30 hours weeks on the other side to even things out? I'm not the type to push my billable hours very far past the minimum. I guess sometimes you are forced to?

If you can't tell, I don't know anything. Help me out here.

Lost it right there.

wut?

[shock259]

getting on the "right side" of a partner also sucks. you get pulled in on almost everything and are swamped as fuck. and when you do all your work for one partner, it's tough to tell them you don't have capacity because he knows your full workload. cool this work is so interesting but i still have 70 hours of it. there is no winning - stop pretending.

This is something I'm just discovering (1st year). It's nice that the partner trusts me, and I honestly like working with her. But her clients are ridiculously demanding and I'm getting put on everything.single.thing. The "formal" workflow system hasn't done anything to change this. Tricky tricky.