1st-year Biglaw NYC - how much for rent? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Health insurance ($300/month), 401(k) (could be as much as $1,500/month if you're contributing aggressively), transit benefits ($100+/month), etc. It adds up. Mind you, that's not just NYC. 401(k) is the biggest drag from take-home, and you really should be contributing the max (which is a bit shy of $1,500/month).

Edit: Also, repaying your salary advance, which is pro-rated across your first year. That's -$9000 from your first-year salary right away.

Some firms do stipends instead of advances tho. One of the more underrated benefits.

Market standard in NYC is an advance, so you're only talking about a handful of firms that are not based in NYC doing the stipend for their NYC offices. (Kirkland and Sidley are the only ones I'm aware of.) And the difference isn't that big since you're taxed on the stipend but not the advance.

It's still an extra ~5000 or so in your pocket, which is nice.

[BPLawl]

Generally: If you're working in midtown, I think Washington Heights/Brooklyn is a waste. Washington Heights you're looking at a crazy subway ride. North of 96th trains are all local all the time, no? Brooklyn is god knows how long depending on how the 4/5 are feeling that day. If you don't want to drop the money to live midtown or near midtown I think NW Queens (Astoria/Steinway/LIC) are your best shots. Woodside near the E train is fire if you're OK with trading a little social life.

Search craigslist. If you're willing to chop a place with friends or meet someone on there and be their roommate you could score well under $1500/mo in rent.

(See e.g., --LinkRemoved-- --LinkRemoved-- http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/abo/4682441603.html)

You: Then again, that's what I would do. You have biglaw with NO debt. Spring the 3k-4k for a sweet studio with the doorman. Get the sweetest pad you can in midtown itself.

Note: If you live a place that has a doorman, make sure when you're looking through that the doorman is 32BJ. If they're getting counterfeit, fly-by-night doorman service you don't want to be paying extra for that.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

You could easily get a place close to work for $2k or less if you were willing to scrimp on the bullshit. Maybe you won't have a doorman or a separate dining room, and maybe there won't be four Danish-Kuwaiti fusion restaurants within two blocks but you'll have a place to collapse when you come home at 10 PM.

You could also get a place for under $1500 that's a relatively painless commute if you could get over the fact that your neighbors will be poor and brown, which apparently 95% of Biglaw associates can't do.

[Anonymous User]

PH gives 17k stipend. That's more like a 12k difference.

[Mal Reynolds]

PH gives 17k stipend. That's more like a 12k difference.

The only reason they can afford this is because of the no offers though.

[Anonymous User]

PH gives 17k stipend. That's more like a 12k difference.

The only reason they can afford this is because of the no offers though.

You'll appreciate not having to work with the bottom 10-20 percent of law students in terms of maturity, capability, and personality.

That's probably worth an extra 5 grand.

[Rahviveh]

PH gives 17k stipend. That's more like a 12k difference.

The only reason they can afford this is because of the no offers though.

You'll appreciate not having to work with the bottom 10-20 percent of law students in terms of maturity, capability, and personality.

That's probably worth an extra 5 grand.

(Ph recruiting assistant)

[Mal Reynolds]

Amazing

[dixiecupdrinking]

PH gives 17k stipend. That's more like a 12k difference.

The only reason they can afford this is because of the no offers though.

You'll appreciate not having to work with the bottom 10-20 percent of law students in terms of maturity, capability, and personality.

That's probably worth an extra 5 grand.

(Ph recruiting assistant)

New PH recruiting slogan: "Only the best 80 or 90 percent of the population is good enough for us!"

"We give 10 to 20 percent for our clients!"

[5ky]

You could easily get a place close to work for $2k or less if you were willing to scrimp on the bullshit. Maybe you won't have a doorman or a separate dining room, and maybe there won't be four Danish-Kuwaiti fusion restaurants within two blocks but you'll have a place to collapse when you come home at 10 PM.

You could also get a place for under $1500 that's a relatively painless commute if you could get over the fact that your neighbors will be poor and brown, which apparently 95% of Biglaw associates can't do.

(making 160k with no debt) (is racist for not wanting to live in washington heights)

[patogordo]

making 160k is pretty racist

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

You could easily get a place close to work for $2k or less if you were willing to scrimp on the bullshit. Maybe you won't have a doorman or a separate dining room, and maybe there won't be four Danish-Kuwaiti fusion restaurants within two blocks but you'll have a place to collapse when you come home at 10 PM.

You could also get a place for under $1500 that's a relatively painless commute if you could get over the fact that your neighbors will be poor and brown, which apparently 95% of Biglaw associates can't do.

(making 160k with no debt) (is racist for not wanting to live in washington heights)

You'd be amazed how many students with six-figure debt go for the 1BR in Soho when the studio in Spanish Harlem is a quicker commute.

ETA: I know OP doesn't have any debt. I just don't see the marginal value in luxury for a single person who spends most of his waking hours at the office anyway.

[20141023]

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[junaman]

What you're missing is an accurate accounting for Federal income tax. It should be $38,000. That $12k discrepancy gets you down to $97k or $8k/month.

Yup. This is right.

Nice thing is about this time of year, you hit the SS contribution limit so that boosts your takehome a bit. But, $3500 or so a check is pretty accurate if you're doing 401(k).

Ah... I see it is a little different depending on whether you're married or not. To give a revised calculation based on a $160,000 salary ("married" below is assuming married and filing jointly):

[Federal] Single: $38,100 / Married: $32,100 [url=<a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt. ... </span></a>](Single: 28% minus $6,700 / Married: 28% minus $12,500)[/url]
[State] Single: $10,161 / Married: $9,680 [url=<a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms ... </span></a>](Single: $4,651 plus 6.65% on the excess over $77,150 / Married: $9,304 plus 6.65% on the excess over $154,350)[/url]
[Social Security] $7,254 [url=<a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheet ... </span></a>](6.2% on all earnings up to $117,000)[/url]
[City] Single: $5,719 / Married: $5,625 [url=<a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms ... </span></a>](Single: $1,706 plus 3.648% of the excess over $50,000 / Married: $3,071 plus 3.648% of the excess over $90,000)[/url]
[Medicare] $2,320 [url=<a class="vglnk" title="Link added by VigLink" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ssa.gov/news/press/factsheet ... </span></a>](1.45 on all earnings%)[/url]
[Total Deductions] Single: $63,554 / Married: $56,979 (Single: 39.7% / Married: 35.6%)

Based on the above, you would be left with:

[Annual Remainder] Single: $96,446 / Married: $103,021
[Monthly Take-home] Single: $8,037 / Married: $8,585

Then, subtracting approximately $2,000/month based on what the anon posted on the previous page (Health insurance: $300/month, 401(k): $1,500/month; Transit Benefits: $100+/month), you come out to:

[Final Monthly Take-home] Single: $6,037 / Married: $6,585

This is assuming your spouse earns $0?

[Anonymous User]

This is assuming your spouse earns $0?

Yes - assuming housewife/househusband, and no bonus. Obviously having income from such additional sources will change the results, but I wanted to calculate the bare-minimum numbers.

(Sorry, not sure why I anon'ed.)

[Frayed Knot]

What you're missing is an accurate accounting for Federal income tax. It should be $38,000. That $12k discrepancy gets you down to $97k or $8k/month.

Yup. This is right.

Nice thing is about this time of year, you hit the SS contribution limit so that boosts your takehome a bit. But, $3500 or so a check is pretty accurate if you're doing 401(k).

Ah... I see it is a little different depending on whether you're married or not. To give a revised calculation based on a $160,000 salary ("married" below is assuming married and filing jointly):

[Federal] Single: $38,100 / Married: $32,100 (Single: 28% minus $6,700 / Married: 28% minus $12,500)
[State] Single: $10,161 / Married: $9,680 (Single: $4,651 plus 6.65% on the excess over $77,150 / Married: $9,304 plus 6.65% on the excess over $154,350)
[Social Security] $7,254 (6.2% on all earnings up to $117,000)
[City] Single: $5,719 / Married: $5,625 (Single: $1,706 plus 3.648% of the excess over $50,000 / Married: $3,071 plus 3.648% of the excess over $90,000) (LinkRemoved)
[Medicare] $2,320 (1.45 on all earnings%)
[Total Deductions] Single: $63,554 / Married: $56,979 (Single: 39.7% / Married: 35.6%)

Based on the above, you would be left with:

[Annual Remainder] Single: $96,446 / Married: $103,021
[Monthly Take-home] Single: $8,037 / Married: $8,585

Then, subtracting approximately $2,000/month based on what the anon posted on the previous page (Health insurance: $300/month, 401(k): $1,500/month; Transit Benefits: $100+/month), you come out to:

[Final Monthly Take-home] Single: $6,037 / Married: $6,585

This overstates taxes (slightly) due to two factors:

• No personal exemption: you are entitled to a personal exemption reducing your tax by $3,900 (or $7,800 for a married couple). That saves you about $1.3k/year ($2.6k married)
• You didn't itemize your deductions. The standard deduction is $6,200 ($12,400 married). Since this is a lot less that your state and local taxes, you'd be better off itemizing—even if the only deduction you claim is for state and local taxes. That should save you another ~$3k (or ~$1k married)

Thus, you should have another $3k–4k in your annual income. Plus any bonus/other itemized deductions.

[20141023]

.

[AReasonableMan]

The things that make NY cost of living low (going to different markets for different things depending on weekly sales), walking everywhere, happy hour, etc are things you don't have time for in big law.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, I didn't want to get into all of that additional stuff since it doesn't drastically change the outcome, but you're right.

Yeah, it's not huge. Still, though, an extra $200-$300/month can get a similar apartment in a building with a doorman (in midtown east, for example—http://www.nakedapartments.com/neighbor ... der?size=2). So when we're talking about how much to spend on an apartment, the small differences can matter.

[Anonymous User]

What you're missing is an accurate accounting for Federal income tax. It should be $38,000. That $12k discrepancy gets you down to $97k or $8k/month.

Yup. This is right.

Nice thing is about this time of year, you hit the SS contribution limit so that boosts your takehome a bit. But, $3500 or so a check is pretty accurate if you're doing 401(k).

Ah... I see it is a little different depending on whether you're married or not. To give a revised calculation based on a $160,000 salary ("married" below is assuming married and filing jointly):

[Federal] Single: $38,100 / Married: $32,100 (Single: 28% minus $6,700 / Married: 28% minus $12,500)
[State] Single: $10,161 / Married: $9,680 (Single: $4,651 plus 6.65% on the excess over $77,150 / Married: $9,304 plus 6.65% on the excess over $154,350)
[Social Security] $7,254 (6.2% on all earnings up to $117,000)
[City] Single: $5,719 / Married: $5,625 (Single: $1,706 plus 3.648% of the excess over $50,000 / Married: $3,071 plus 3.648% of the excess over $90,000) (LinkRemoved)
[Medicare] $2,320 (1.45% on all earnings%)
[Total Deductions] Single: $63,554 / Married: $56,979 (Single: 39.7% / Married: 35.6%)

Based on the above, you would be left with:

[Annual Remainder] Single: $96,446 / Married: $103,021
[Monthly Take-home] Single: $8,037 / Married: $8,585

Then, subtracting approximately $2,000/month based on what the anon posted on the previous page (Health insurance: $300/month, 401(k): $1,500/month; Transit Benefits: $100+/month), you come out to:

[Final Monthly Take-home] Single: $6,037 / Married: $6,585

This is incorrect...401(k) and transit (assuming your firm uses TransitCheck or similar program) is all pretax, so the taxes you've calculated will be less since the 401(k)/transit comes out BEFORE taxes. So deduct ~$2,000/month from from $160k, then your taxable income is noticeably lower.

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

The things that make NY cost of living low (going to different markets for different things depending on weekly sales), walking everywhere, happy hour, etc are things you don't have time for in big law.

One thing that keeps the COL low is having firms' Seamless accounts paying for 50% or more of your meals.

[AReasonableMan]

The things that make NY cost of living low (going to different markets for different things depending on weekly sales), walking everywhere, happy hour, etc are things you don't have time for in big law.

One thing that keeps the COL low is having firms' Seamless accounts paying for 50% or more of your meals.

How common is this in real life? I don't think any of us summers did that this summer. When it came to stuff like that if normally ask a summer I thought had good judgment what they'd do. Seemed inappropriate.

[Tiago Splitter]

The things that make NY cost of living low (going to different markets for different things depending on weekly sales), walking everywhere, happy hour, etc are things you don't have time for in big law.

One thing that keeps the COL low is having firms' Seamless accounts paying for 50% or more of your meals.

How common is this in real life? I don't think any of us summers did that this summer. When it came to stuff like that if normally ask a summer I thought had good judgment what they'd do. Seemed inappropriate.

We did it all the time, and plenty of associates ate nearly every weeknight dinner at the office on the firm's tab.

Also, not sure why anyone ITT is treating 401k contributions as non-discretionary.

[Anonymous User]

The things that make NY cost of living low (going to different markets for different things depending on weekly sales), walking everywhere, happy hour, etc are things you don't have time for in big law.

One thing that keeps the COL low is having firms' Seamless accounts paying for 50% or more of your meals.

How common is this in real life? I don't think any of us summers did that this summer. When it came to stuff like that if normally ask a summer I thought had good judgment what they'd do. Seemed inappropriate.

We did it all the time, and plenty of associates ate nearly every weeknight dinner at the office on the firm's tab.

Also, not sure why anyone ITT is treating 401k contributions as non-discretionary.

Assuming you are on track for loan payments is it better to use the remainder to max out 401ks or for other savings/investments

[Frayed Knot]

This overstates taxes (slightly) due to two factors:

• No personal exemption: you are entitled to a personal exemption reducing your tax by $3,900 (or $7,800 for a married couple). That saves you about $1.3k/year ($2.6k married)
• You didn't itemize your deductions. The standard deduction is $6,200 ($12,400 married). Since this is a lot less that your state and local taxes, you'd be better off itemizing—even if the only deduction you claim is for state and local taxes. That should save you another ~$3k (or ~$1k married)

Thus, you should have another $3k–4k in your annual income. Plus any bonus/other itemized deductions.

I ran the numbers with those deductions, and wound up with total takehome of $109,185.26/year. So $9,098.77/month. (It looks like you weren't including any deductions—I thought you were using the standard deduction instead of state and local.) This doesn't include transit, 401k, insurance, etc.—but, on the other hand, it doesn't include bonus or other deductions either.