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I did an interview with a firm in a tie sensitive secondary market and am worried I did not stress my ties hard enough. Would it ever make sense to call them and say you have an expiring offer but would rather choose them just to make it clear that I want to be in that city even if you don't actually have another offer about to expire. Thanks in advance.

Anonymous User wrote:I did an interview with a firm in a tie sensitive secondary market and am worried I did not stress my ties hard enough. Would it ever make sense to call them and say you have an expiring offer but would rather choose them just to make it clear that I want to be in that city even if you don't actually have another offer about to expire. Thanks in advance.

Sorry bro, we can't decide by then. I'll take you off our list. Thanks for letting me know.

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I did an interview with a firm in a tie sensitive secondary market and am worried I did not stress my ties hard enough. Would it ever make sense to call them and say you have an expiring offer but would rather choose them just to make it clear that I want to be in that city even if you don't actually have another offer about to expire. Thanks in advance.

Sorry bro, we can't decide by then. I'll take you off our list. Thanks for letting me know.

haha fair enough.

Anonymous User wrote:I did an interview with a firm in a tie sensitive secondary market and am worried I did not stress my ties hard enough. Would it ever make sense to call them and say you have an expiring offer but would rather choose them just to make it clear that I want to be in that city even if you don't actually have another offer about to expire. Thanks in advance.

Hope you can see for reasons unrelated to DF's post why this would be a very dumb idea.

Not OP but what about saying you have an offer already when they ask during the CB?

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP but what about saying you have an offer already when they ask during the CB?

To what end?

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP but what about saying you have an offer already when they ask during the CB?

Am I not understanding the questions or something? Why would anyone think it is a good idea to lie to an employer about having an offer from elsewhere?

Tanicius wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP but what about saying you have an offer already when they ask during the CB?

Am I not understanding the questions or something? Why would anyone think it is a good idea to lie to an employer about having an offer from elsewhere?

My thought process was if there is a minimal to none risk of getting caught in the lie but it could somehow help your chances then it could be worth it. Obviously it might not be the case that the risk is 0 so I'm not saying I would definitely have done that but I was at least curious if there was any benefit. If there was none at all then its a moot point.

Edit: Original OP btw.

Lying is bad, even if it helps trick people into giving you what you want. Is that what you needed to know?

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Lying is bad, even if it helps trick people into giving you what you want. Is that what you needed to know?

I mean lies are thrown around throughout the entire recruiting process. "I like litigation", for your lit boutique when really you wanted transactional. "I love city X" when really you wanted city Y. "You guys are my first choice" when they ask but really they were like your 5th. I don't want to be drawn into a big debate on lies here but I'll just say that while most people think there is generally something wrong with lying no one would ever say it is so bad that it should never be done.

Please do this. And let us know what happens when they ask you what firm the other offer is at. Kthnx

Anonymous User wrote:

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Lying is bad, even if it helps trick people into giving you what you want. Is that what you needed to know?

I mean lies are thrown around throughout the entire recruiting process. "I like litigation", for your lit boutique when really you wanted transactional. "I love city X" when really you wanted city Y. "You guys are my first choice" when they ask but really they were like your 5th. I don't want to be drawn into a big debate on lies here but I'll just say that while most people think there is generally something wrong with lying no one would ever say it is so bad that it should never be done.

It's one thing to tell the firm what it wants to hear and what it expects any competent interviewee to tell them. The unnecessary premeditation here is probably what is turning people off. Anyway, I'm not saying I would never do what OP is contemplating. But in this case, I don't see how it's at all advantageous to make up a story about an offer expiring. Worst case scenario -- they advise you to accept the offer, because they can't get back to you soon enough. Best case scenario -- you have reaffirmed your interest in the firm and the market. Why not just reaffirm your interest in the firm and the market without the lie?

Anonymous User wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP but what about saying you have an offer already when they ask during the CB?

Am I not understanding the questions or something? Why would anyone think it is a good idea to lie to an employer about having an offer from elsewhere?

My thought process was if there is a minimal to none risk of getting caught in the lie but it could somehow help your chances then it could be worth it. Obviously it might not be the case that the risk is 0 so I'm not saying I would definitely have done that but I was at least curious if there was any benefit. If there was none at all then its a moot point.

Edit: Original OP btw.

If you get caught doing this, you will not become a lawyer. That's as simple as it gets.

And it's not a relevant part of this question, but actually your chances of getting caught for this are quite high.

The legal world is tiny, and while there is a good chance you won't get get caught, there is a chance you will. From personal experience, i had offers with Firms X and Y in the same region, and, long story short, one of the associates from X was married to an associate from Y. When I summered at Y, I ended up seeing X associate multiple times at firm events. I was really glad I had been upfront about everything with both firms. HTFH

don't be an idiot. get another offer first before you claim expiration. i let my first offer run 2.5 weeks before i made my call.

Everyone here is absurdly risk averse. If you tell them the offer is in some other market there's pretty much no chance that anyone will ever find out.

Anonymous User wrote:Everyone here is absurdly risk averse. If you tell them the offer is in some other market there's pretty much no chance that anyone will ever find out.

the chance of getting "caught" in the lie or having an ethical hiccup still outpaces the chance that telling them you have an expiring offer makes shit difference to your chances. as DF pointed out, in 9+ out of 10 cases, if you were gonna get the offer with the lie you'd get it after, and if you were gonna get the ding then you would just receive it earlier. At most, what the offer deadline BS buys you is a couple days of knowing one way or the other, but its not like the firm will change its mind about you relying on that false information... its not like this strategy actually has a value add for your chances in this case. I'd take the wait it out

Tanicius wrote:
If you get caught doing this, you will not become a lawyer. That's as simple as it gets.

And it's not a relevant part of this question, but actually your chances of getting caught for this are quite high.

I don't think OP should lie because I don't think it will make a difference. But I also don't think the "you will not become a lawyer" part is true. Even if they catch the lie, they will think "wtf is this idiot kid doing" and move on. They're not going to call all their contacts in every city in the country and blacklist some random law student.

FWIW: Candidates often phone about offer deadlines. Asking them the name of the offer firm is SOP. I do not recall a time when a candidate tried to dodge that question.

Don't lie broseph

nickelanddime wrote:

Tanicius wrote:
If you get caught doing this, you will not become a lawyer. That's as simple as it gets.

And it's not a relevant part of this question, but actually your chances of getting caught for this are quite high.

I don't think OP should lie because I don't think it will make a difference. But I also don't think the "you will not become a lawyer" part is true. Even if they catch the lie, they will think "wtf is this idiot kid doing" and move on. They're not going to call all their contacts in every city in the country and blacklist some random law student.

The reason he would not be a lawyer is if the firm contacts the state bar association, not blackballing him everywhere else. There was a kid who lied to UMichigan about how much scholarship aid he had received at other law schools, and that basically resulted in him being unable to attend law school anywhere, because none of the schools were confident he'd be able to pass C&F with that on his record. How do you think it would look to have "made a material lie to a potential employer in the hiring process about having a job offer from elsewhere" on your C&F record? Good luck explaining it away.

And no, it's plainly obvious how much it helps to tell employers that you already have a job offer. Employers don't like weakness in their candidates. Telling an employer you already have a job offer makes you sound competent and qualified (because why else would a reputable place have offered to hire you already?) and makes you come across as more confident and less desperate. They know that if you chose their firm, you're doing it because you would genuinely rather work there than with the other place. Having a job offer already is a huge boon to an applicant in this line of work. As a good example, consider that almost everyone who gets a job offer from 3L OCI already has a permanent employment offer from their 2L summer firm. That's how important this fact is in the hiring decision.

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Lying is bad, even if it helps trick people into giving you what you want. Is that what you needed to know?

What are you, 5 years old? People lie every single day about things of various importance - including during the recruiting process. Your interviewers are probably lying to you about some aspect of the firm. It's a necessary part ofl
life.
None of which means I'm condoning this particular lie. But "lying is bad" isn't much of an argumentw.

iplulzer wrote:

NotMyRealName09 wrote:Lying is bad, even if it helps trick people into giving you what you want. Is that what you needed to know?

What are you, 5 years old? People lie every single day about things of various importance - including during the recruiting process. Your interviewers are probably lying to you about some aspect of the firm. It's a necessary part ofl
life.
None of which means I'm condoning this particular lie. But "lying is bad" isn't much of an argumentw.

Integrity isn't much of an argument? Jeez.

Just call and reiterate your interest.

I had a particularly bad interview at a place I hated and, when I got back to my hotel, I called the recruiter at my top choice firm (I'd had a CB there a week before) and reiterated my interest in the firm and the market. That's the firm at which I currently work.

In TLS fantasy land, lying is bad. In reality, no one really cares in this case. With trivial issues such as this one, people at most firms aren't waste their time checking to see if you have an offer at some other place or not. And they're definitely not going to call the State Bar. In 6 months, they won't even remember you ever interviewed there, unless you did something memorable, or if you're in such a small town that everyone knows everyone else (and I'm sure there are other exceptions).

And if you can't handle lies, you better look for another profession. A good percentage of lawyers I deal with are honest. Then there's a good percentage that stretches the truth to a ridiculous degree. There there's a small percentage that just plain out lie in a mind-boggling fashion.

Who knows what would happen if you contact the firm. Sure there's a small chance that it might hurt you, but the odds are so low, it's not worth worrying about.

Of course you can go and apply at McDonalds. Get an offer for minimum wage. Then you can say you have another offer without lying.