Top Law Schools

Went through my linkedin and memory about where graduates are now a couple years after graduating. Most of these jobs aren't glorious but some of these people would have no chance of making a comfortable living while doing a job inside at a desk. While many of the people I am friends with work for small law firms that pay about 50k, the hours at these firms are 40 hour weeks, unlike biglaw, and I have yet to hear of someone at these firms being denied vacation time ever. However, most all of these people (big law or not) are not "happy" in law. My advice is if you have other options for making a living, I'd pursue those instead of law altogether. If you have no options and are in a dead end job, this is some data for you to make your own decision about pursuing law. I have put in salary if I know and approximated others I have a rough idea about. I kinda separated from decent outcomes to outcomes that are not that desirable but some may be out of order because of when I remembered "oh yeah what about that person." Also, T3 is a buyer beware situation, but again may be right in some dire circumstances.


1: No latin honors, IP biglaw Chicago, engineering degree, misses required 2000 hours every year and bills about 1800, works from home a fair amount, is a 4th year now.
2: Law review, biglaw Chicago, 3rd year, bills 2400-2700, hates it
3: law review, biglaw Chicago, 3rd year, bills 2200, likes it okay
4: law review, clerking for 7th circuit
5: No latin honors, IP biglaw secondary market, 3rd year started at 115k
6: no honors, IP boutique, no relevant undergrad degree, $100k+
7: top 20%, small business law firm (six figure pay/1600 billable), interviewing at several biglaw firms
8: below median, big4 tax law
9: law review, big 4 tax law
10: no honors, niche government atty (85k)
11: no honors, state's attorney (55k)
12: no honors, auditor for insurance company (left big4 so pay is above that)
13: law review, IP boutique (80k), worked in shitlaw for 2 years but stuck it out and loves this position
14: no honors, in house attorney
15: no honors, patent work for US govt
16: no honors, wealth mgmt for major company
17: no honors, works in politics for state govt
18: no honors, public defender
19: no honors, insurance defense (around 85k)
20: top 20%, biglaw secondary market
21: no honors, midlaw secondary market, (100k)
22: no latin honors, insurance defense at NLJ250
23: below median, partner-esque situation at small law firm, bilingual (no data on salary but based on the house she just bought, at least 85k probably into six figs)
24: not sure gpa, 2 person shop trusted like a partner, 150k (2009 graduate)
25: no honors, small law firm that family owns, (six figures, also sitting on a personal injury referral that will net him close to .5mil pretty easily)
26: law review, midlaw, 100k
27: top 20%, small law firm, very low hours requirement and chill office (around 75k based on job offers turned down)
28: no honors, government agency/union (no idea but govt and union so prolly not too shabby)
29: law review, boutique, 100k
30: top 20%, left a 60k job to start own firm
31: top 20%, big law 2 years, midlaw now
32: top 20%, in house (left a 80k position for this)
33: law review, in house (60k, doesn't work fridays)
34: law review, biglaw
35: top 20%, small law firm (stayed there 3 years, so pay is probably livable 60k)
36: below median, works at a major bank in JD advantage position (60k, 5 weeks vacation and another week of sick leave)
38: top 20%, $35/hr for a major company, can take as much vacation as wanted
39: top 20%, biglaw
40: below median, midlaw (85k)
41: no honors, midlaw 100k
42: no honors, midlaw, 90k

1: no honors, small law firm
2: no honors, small law firm, bilingual
3: law review, started own firm (they were big law or bust when they started their own firm, still afloat after 2 years)
4: law review, started own firm (biglaw or bust, started own firm)
5: no honors, in house (no idea, but not that high)
6: no honors, started own firm
7: no honors, no job, never went to class or did a single internship/job in law school
8: top 20%, HR, left law
9: no latin honors, left law to teach (was a contract attorney making 70kish a year)
10: top 20%, small law firm (left 60k job for this)
11: no honors, non law job, white collar job
12: no honors, non legal job in HR
13: no honors, staff attorney at some agency
14: no honors, small law firm
15: no honors, small law firm
16: no honors, kinda niche JD advantage job (60k)
17: no honors, government
18: no honors, small law firm
19: no honors, small law firm
20: no honors, small law firm
21: law review, works for a solo, 45k but works 20-25 hours a week
22: no honors, bank, JD advantage job that pays around 40k
23: top 20%, small law firm, (50k, 20-30 vacation days)
24: no latin honors, small law firm, bilingual
25: no latin honors, off and on small law firm work, but her husband is loaded and she's a mom so I doubt she tries too hard
26: no latin honors, real estate broker
27: below median, small law firm, (45k)
28: no latin honors, small law firm
29: below median, small law firm, multilingual
30: no latin honors, small law personal injury (no evidence on salary, but been there since graduation with a pretty large network 60-65k guess again)
31: below median, small estate planning/tax law firm (no idea about pay but he's been there for 3 years and hasn't left so I doubt it's horrendous, my guess is around 60-65k
32: no latin honors, nonlegal government job
33: below median, major bank, JD advantage, 55k

Some of the people in small law firms are also getting to the point where they are making enough connections that their jobs will have to give them pretty significant pay raises (bump up to 65/75k) to keep them from leaving for another firm or opening their own shop. The bottom category is shrinking, but it's taken a lot of hustle. Most of these people at small law firms have networked, worked shitlaw, changed jobs 3-4 times already, but are starting to make it to respectable places.

survival bias? how many suicides?

A lot of people I know have managed to land on their feet from TTTs. What they got however is below what they originally hoped and expected, and they also went through an intense amount of stress to get where they are. So do not get any ideas 0Ls. It is still terrible out there.

Pokemon wrote:A lot of people I know have managed to land on their feet from TTTs. What they got however is below what they originally hoped and expected, and they also went through an intense amount of stress to get where they are. So do not get any ideas 0Ls. It is still terrible out there.

Agreed. Everyone has to network their ass off and constantly try and hop from ladder to ladder climb.

had to research where alumni are from my t6 secondary journal from early 2000s and most of them went biglaw --> midlaw or 1 or 2 person shop or inhouse or government job

(sample size = like 8 )

Honestly, I think threads like these are dangerous. I realize that it's good to have a "counter culture" thread opposing the common wisdom of other TLS threads. I'm a TTT transfer that snagged a V10 offer and at this point at my old school there are only 2 out of my class of 100 that have biglaw offers and a ton of them are VERY stressed out because they have nothing. I'm lucky to have escaped but to advocate for TTTs (which this thread does directly by painting a rosy picture of the job prospects from these schools) is not a good thing for the prospective 0ls that stumble across these while trolling around these parts. Just my .02

I think the TTT is super important. Going to Pitt in Pittsburgh or WVU for West Virginia? Not a bad plan, espc. w/instate tuition. Going to Hasting? Never TCR.

Did you read what he wrote? Dude did not paint a rosy picture.

UnamSanctam wrote:Did you read what he wrote? Dude did not paint a rosy picture.

I thought be painted a very rosy picture, especially for the people who think things will be much better for them because they are attending a "T1"

I was trying to give situations and let them speak for themselves so people can make their own decisions. I don't know what kind of person graduating from school with any kind of internships or relevant experience that leads to job offers would think this shit is rosy. Like 7 out of 80 in biglaw and 1 clerk. Law review people making 45k 6 years after graduating from college. That's not rosy. This is also 2-3 years out and people have had to make their own luck by either extreme networking or starting their own firm. That's scary stuff.
On the other side to someone who is at a dead end, it is what it is. These people are alive and working office jobs. The work isn't glorious but you live to fight another day.

Also, this is in Chicago so cost of living basically drives up some of these salaries. 45k ain't rosy. 60k isn't great.

No one here is pro-TTT so I'm not sure what the point of this is.

Still, I'd say these are pretty good outcomes (without considering debt) compared to what the average TTT student would be doing outside of law.

I think the outcomes are generally realistic. People do land somehow on their feet... they do get a job paying around 45k-65k. The problem is that it is not worth getting a JD (spending 200k) to make around that much. Real estates agents can make more without even going to school.

Pokemon wrote:I think the outcomes are generally realistic. People do land somehow on their feet... they do get a job paying around 45k-65k. The problem is that it is not worth getting a JD (spending 200k) to make around that much. Real estates agents can make more without even going to school.

A salary in that range isn't the end of the world so long as 1. you're happy being whatever kind of lawyer you are and 2. you can manage your debt situation while affording a lifestyle you're happy with.

It all comes down to this: law school only makes sense if you know for a fact that you want to be a lawyer, and the debt vs. reward calculus your law school presents you is strongly in your favor. This has been repeated a million times, but people still seem to have trouble grasping it.

JohannDeMann wrote:While many of the people I am friends with work for small law firms that pay about 50k, the hours at these firms are 40 hour weeks, unlike biglaw, and I have yet to hear of someone at these firms being denied vacation time ever. However, most all of these people (big law or not) are not "happy" in law. My advice is if you have other options for making a living, I'd pursue those instead of law altogether. If you have no options and are in a dead end job, this is some data for you to make your own decision about pursuing law.

Like this is just not rosy. This is "pay a shitload for an education and probably end up with 50k/year in a big city with high CoL."