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Trying to decide between two firms in California.

Do you want to litigate?

Anonymous User wrote:Do you want to litigate?

Yes

I'd do OMM, but mostly because I'd kill to live in Newport.

Anonymous User wrote:I'd do OMM, but mostly because I'd kill to live in Newport.

why???

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'd do OMM, but mostly because I'd kill to live in Newport.

why???

dat McMansion + 2.5 kids, every young person's dream.

both firms have offices in both places though

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'd do OMM, but mostly because I'd kill to live in Newport.

why???

dat McMansion + 2.5 kids, every young person's dream.

My fave diner and breakfast burrito are down there.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'd do OMM, but mostly because I'd kill to live in Newport.

why???

dat McMansion + 2.5 kids, every young person's dream.

My fave diner and breakfast burrito are down there.

which one?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'd do OMM, but mostly because I'd kill to live in Newport.

why???

My fave diner and breakfast burrito are down there.

which one?

Galley Café and the Los Primos chorizo burrito.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: My fave diner and breakfast burrito are down there.

which one?

Galley Café and the Los Primos chorizo burrito.

hmmm not familiar, but i will say breakfast burritos are a legit reason to live in newport/costa mesa

Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

What makes you say that Irell is way more prestigious? OMM ranks higher in Southern California and much higher nationally than does Irell and both of them have good, strong practices in LA and Orange County. If anything, their prestige is indistinguishable except for the fact that Irell is more selective in its hiring.

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

Irell doesn't consider it to be a satellite and it's only an hour and a half or two hours away. So I'm not sure if that's koolaid drinking or if it actually doesn't matter which office you start with.

b123456 wrote:

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

What makes you say that Irell is way more prestigious? OMM ranks higher in Southern California and much higher nationally than does Irell and both of them have good, strong practices in LA and Orange County. If anything, their prestige is indistinguishable except for the fact that Irell is more selective in its hiring.

IDK bc I never got far with Irell so it wasn't a consideration but I remember going into OCI thinking that Irell/Munger were the best lit shops in socal. Maybe it has everything to do with selectivity. But on the other hand IDK what rankings you're referring to and if it is really consistent with what lawyers in the market's perception of the firm is. It may be a function of being a large, national firm with a high volume of work. People drool over Munger/Irell. They don't as much over OMM in my experience. That may be simplistic/prestige-whorey but in my experience it's been pretty consistent.

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:

b123456 wrote:

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

What makes you say that Irell is way more prestigious? OMM ranks higher in Southern California and much higher nationally than does Irell and both of them have good, strong practices in LA and Orange County. If anything, their prestige is indistinguishable except for the fact that Irell is more selective in its hiring.

IDK bc I never got far with Irell so it wasn't a consideration but I remember going into OCI thinking that Irell/Munger were the best lit shops in socal. Maybe it has everything to do with selectivity. But on the other hand IDK what rankings you're referring to and if it is really consistent with what lawyers in the market's perception of the firm is. It may be a function of being a large, national firm with a high volume of work. People drool over Munger/Irell. They don't as much over OMM in my experience. That may be simplistic/prestige-whorey but in my experience it's been pretty consistent.

I was referring to the Vault rankings at the national and state level. I also compared them on Above the Law and Irell only outperforms OMM in pay (5K more in bonuses, base salary the same for first years) and culture I think, but I didn't pay too much attention to their "culture" variable because that seems too hard to measure.

I know what you mean with selectivity, though. I read that Munger is the most selective firm in the nation and Irell isn't too far behind. But they're also smaller than many of the better-known national firms so I wonder if that skews the selectivity factor in their favor.

I think this depends on three things: location preference, practice area preference, and your personal preference. You have to decide on location yourself. Also only you know whether you liked the people at a given office, though you should consider the fact that the 5-10 people you've met are only a fraction of the office (granted that's a bigger fraction of the OMM office). Both offices likely cross-staff but I do think there's some value to being at the home office. Senior associates/partners you work with are going to remember you more easily when they've had more chances to interact with you in person. This is going to make it easier to get staffed on the kind of work you want to do since they will more likely think of you or come to you when they have work to give out. That said, Irell does have a reputation for working people harder than other big firms but I don't know how much truth there is to that and I don't know how the hours compare to the OMM office.

Irell does a lot of patent litigation and a decent amount of white collar/securities. OMM tends to be more general commercial and securities, though it seems that they've got some partners that are known for employment litigation in that office. If you're truly location agnostic and liked the people at both, I'd pick the firm that has the practice areas that you prefer.

I was referring to the Vault rankings..

Vault is NYC-centric and trans-focused. Irell loses points on both counts.

I read that Munger is the most selective firm in the nation...

Keker Van Nest is arguably even more selective, one spot each for HYS grads.

OP, pm me please.

for litigation, I'd go with Irell here and it's not even that close a call. You'll make more money doing higher quality work. also, FWIW if you are interested in working in OC then Irell should allow you to split between its CC and Newport offices and if people like you in each you can make a decision after the summer about where you want to start. It's relatively fluid.

Mal Reynolds wrote:

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

Irell doesn't consider it to be a satellite and it's only an hour and a half or two hours away. So I'm not sure if that's koolaid drinking or if it actually doesn't matter which office you start with.

The option is Irell CC, not Newport. OMM is Newport.

As for Irell being more prestigious, maybe that's not true for trans but there is little doubt that it's true for lit. Look, I don't think it's the most important criterion, or even one of the most important ones, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a biglaw lawyer in LA who would put OMM on the same level as Irell and Munger, at least for lit. Please don't use Vault rankings for LA biglaw...

Yukos wrote:

Mal Reynolds wrote:

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

Irell doesn't consider it to be a satellite and it's only an hour and a half or two hours away. So I'm not sure if that's koolaid drinking or if it actually doesn't matter which office you start with.

The option is Irell CC, not Newport. OMM is Newport.

As for Irell being more prestigious, maybe that's not true for trans but there is little doubt that it's true for lit. Look, I don't think it's the most important criterion, or even one of the most important ones, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a biglaw lawyer in LA who would put OMM on the same level as Irell and Munger, at least for lit. Please don't use Vault rankings for LA biglaw...

Whoops my b.

Yukos wrote:

Mal Reynolds wrote:

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

Irell doesn't consider it to be a satellite and it's only an hour and a half or two hours away. So I'm not sure if that's koolaid drinking or if it actually doesn't matter which office you start with.

The option is Irell CC, not Newport. OMM is Newport.

As for Irell being more prestigious, maybe that's not true for trans but there is little doubt that it's true for lit. Look, I don't think it's the most important criterion, or even one of the most important ones, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a biglaw lawyer in LA who would put OMM on the same level as Irell and Munger, at least for lit. Please don't use Vault rankings for LA biglaw...

"I think you'd be hard pressed to find a biglaw lawyer in LA who would put OMM on the same level as Irell and Munger"

Based on what? I have found no indication outside this thread that Irell is more prestigious or that it provides its attorneys with better work than OMM. People I've talked to who have worked in the LA area (in-house or law firms) have placed them on the same level.

"Please don't use Vault rankings for LA biglaw..."

Sure, Vault is NY/trans-centric but it's not useless, especially if you're trying to look at national reputation--not everyone will spend their entire career in LA and national reputation might be helpful for in-house positions even within LA. Also, if you look at ATL ratings based on industry and insider surveys, the two get the same scores.

http://abovethelaw.com/law-firms/omelveny-myers/
http://abovethelaw.com/law-firms/irell-manella/

Again, I know that Irell is selective and awesome. I really like the firm. I just haven't seen any evidence that it's a better firm than OMM.

b123456 wrote:

Yukos wrote:

Mal Reynolds wrote:

Yukos wrote:Being a young person in OC sounds terrible but I guess some people would like it. Irell is way more prestigious but man, everyone I've met there has been so awkward. OMM has had some rumors about financial trouble and Newport is a satellite so I'd be a little worried about that. Overall, I'd say if you weren't so turned off by your Irell CB that you're still considering them, that's probably the better place.

Irell doesn't consider it to be a satellite and it's only an hour and a half or two hours away. So I'm not sure if that's koolaid drinking or if it actually doesn't matter which office you start with.

The option is Irell CC, not Newport. OMM is Newport.

As for Irell being more prestigious, maybe that's not true for trans but there is little doubt that it's true for lit. Look, I don't think it's the most important criterion, or even one of the most important ones, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a biglaw lawyer in LA who would put OMM on the same level as Irell and Munger, at least for lit. Please don't use Vault rankings for LA biglaw...

"I think you'd be hard pressed to find a biglaw lawyer in LA who would put OMM on the same level as Irell and Munger"

Based on what? I have found no indication outside this thread that Irell is more prestigious or that it provides its attorneys with better work than OMM. People I've talked to who have worked in the LA area (in-house or law firms) have placed them on the same level.

"Please don't use Vault rankings for LA biglaw..."

Sure, Vault is NY/trans-centric but it's not useless, especially if you're trying to look at national reputation--not everyone will spend their entire career in LA and national reputation might be helpful for in-house positions even within LA. Also, if you look at ATL ratings based on industry and insider surveys, the two get the same scores.

http://abovethelaw.com/law-firms/omelveny-myers/
http://abovethelaw.com/law-firms/irell-manella/

Again, I know that Irell is selective and awesome. I really like the firm. I just haven't seen any evidence that it's a better firm than OMM.

Do those ATL surveys and letter rankings actually mean anything? I'm legit curious if any practicing attorneys want to weigh in. Seems like self-selective participation would skew the results pretty severely.

If there's any difference in "prestige" it's not enough to matter