No Journal/MC....but big law offer Forum

[Anonymous User]

Bravo. Would quit my journal today if I weren't too much of a wimp not to.

Almost no one asked me about it during our OCI. Pretty sure the hype is a scam to lock students in to the slave labor commitments.

I only had one firm tell me they couldn't interview b/c of my lack of journal - they liked everything else about me except the lack of journal.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in the same situation, but am looking to go into lit (likely patent)

would no journal or MC be worse in this situation? I am going to look for a CoA clerkship after a year or two at my firm, but my thought process is instead of doing journal, gun as much as I can in my classes..

Any thoughts?

[jbagelboy]

4bl offers (Chicago and NYC- 2 v50, v70, and v5 ) and 3 mid law. Below median ( by .04) at t25 with no journal or moot court.

2 years work experience which may be why but still pretty happy. Can't complain.

this is amazing, but I somehow doubt you're telling the full story

[threecharacters]

I find it interesting that folks think that law review/journal is completely irrelevant to transactional work. I have to disagree. For one, you get to write about a topic and become an expert in that particular area of law. What better way to set yourself apart especially if you happen to write about or have an interest in a niche area of the law that X law firm happens to practice? You don't have to write about a circuit split on a controversial issue to be published. And it's not your ability to write about the topic per se. But the knowledge acquired while writing a 30+ page paper is pretty significant (in my opinion anyway).

Second, editing and the ability to find sources is always a beneficial skill to have. Perhaps I'm perverse, but I actually enjoy the process. It also hones your attention to detail. If you're reviewing or comparing drafts, I think having been on a journal makes this a bit easier. I know no one cares about the bluebook in memo writing, but I still think it's useful.

In any event, congrats to folks who secured jobs without being on journal or moot court. No doubt you will be fine since you've already cleared the biggest hurdle.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Re: writing a note, though, you don't have to be on journal to do that. You can take a seminar and write your 30 p. paper that way and learn exactly the same things.

[BigZuck]

I find it interesting that folks think that law review/journal is completely irrelevant to transactional work. I have to disagree. For one, you get to write about a topic and become an expert in that particular area of law. What better way to set yourself apart especially if you happen to write about or have an interest in a niche area of the law that X law firm happens to practice? You don't have to write about a circuit split on a controversial issue to be published. And it's not your ability to write about the topic per se. But the knowledge acquired while writing a 30+ page paper is pretty significant (in my opinion anyway).

Second, editing and the ability to find sources is always a beneficial skill to have. Perhaps I'm perverse, but I actually enjoy the process. It also hones your attention to detail. If you're reviewing or comparing drafts, I think having been on a journal makes this a bit easier. I know no one cares about the bluebook in memo writing, but I still think it's useful.

In any event, congrats to folks who secured jobs without being on journal or moot court. No doubt you will be fine since you've already cleared the biggest hurdle.

You're perverse bro

Eta: like jbagel I'm also curious about that other guy getting all those offers. Please come back and tell us your secret!

[Anonymous User]

4bl offers (Chicago and NYC- 2 v50, v70, and v5 ) and 3 mid law. Below median ( by .04) at t25 with no journal or moot court.

2 years work experience which may be why but still pretty happy. Can't complain.

this is amazing, but I somehow doubt you're telling the full story

Mass mailed and "hustled" at OCI - walking into interview rooms when they had a break or no interview. asked if i could come in and talk b/c their wasn't a spot on their schedule to meet.

work experience is consulting, iBanking, and startups (from during college to 2 years after college - 2 years of actual out of school experience -2.5 years internships/starting my own companies). Summer spent in house at a PEG.

[Anonymous User]

No journal/MC here...and bottom 25% of the class. Still managed to snag a V50 gig for next summer.

I don't care if flame, teach me all of your ways.

OP hurr.

Do the whole networking thing. Reach out to alums of your school (undergrad and law school) that are working in your target market(s). Establish some rapport. This is a great thing to bring up in your interviews: "Well, I met with so and so and discussed the firm. She said x and z and that really appeals to me. etc. etc."

Be a good interviewer. Thankfully, this is something that comes naturally to me (unlike law school exams, apparently). If you aren't good, practice practice practice. Do mock interviews. Go to networking events and practice talking to practicing attorneys just to get used to it. This step is absolutely essential. No firm is going to callback/offer a candidate with shit grades who also has a shit personality. You need to show that you are a great fit and that you are someone who will be able to communicate with clients without being a liability.

Oh, and most importantly, go to a t14. Bottom 25% at a non-14 means zero chance at biglaw. Obvi.

You just don't happen to be the OP hahahaha, but I do second all of your points. I transferred from T70 to T14 and targeted NY solely.

[Anonymous User]

No journal/MC here...and bottom 25% of the class. Still managed to snag a V50 gig for next summer.

I don't care if flame, teach me all of your ways.

OP hurr.

Do the whole networking thing. Reach out to alums of your school (undergrad and law school) that are working in your target market(s). Establish some rapport. This is a great thing to bring up in your interviews: "Well, I met with so and so and discussed the firm. She said x and z and that really appeals to me. etc. etc."

Be a good interviewer. Thankfully, this is something that comes naturally to me (unlike law school exams, apparently). If you aren't good, practice practice practice. Do mock interviews. Go to networking events and practice talking to practicing attorneys just to get used to it. This step is absolutely essential. No firm is going to callback/offer a candidate with shit grades who also has a shit personality. You need to show that you are a great fit and that you are someone who will be able to communicate with clients without being a liability.

Oh, and most importantly, go to a t14. Bottom 25% at a non-14 means zero chance at biglaw. Obvi.

You just don't happen to be the OP hahahaha, but I do second all of your points. I transferred from T70 to T14 and targeted NY solely.

I meant OP of the post he was quoting. Not OP of the thread.

[StylinNProfilin]

I find it interesting that folks think that law review/journal is completely irrelevant to transactional work. I have to disagree. For one, you get to write about a topic and become an expert in that particular area of law. What better way to set yourself apart especially if you happen to write about or have an interest in a niche area of the law that X law firm happens to practice? You don't have to write about a circuit split on a controversial issue to be published. And it's not your ability to write about the topic per se. But the knowledge acquired while writing a 30+ page paper is pretty significant (in my opinion anyway).

Second, editing and the ability to find sources is always a beneficial skill to have. Perhaps I'm perverse, but I actually enjoy the process. It also hones your attention to detail. If you're reviewing or comparing drafts, I think having been on a journal makes this a bit easier. I know no one cares about the bluebook in memo writing, but I still think it's useful.

In any event, congrats to folks who secured jobs without being on journal or moot court. No doubt you will be fine since you've already cleared the biggest hurdle.

I had a Corporate Partner give me this speech during one of my screeners. Said he could tell the difference between associates that didn't do a journal. I might have rolled my eyes.

[Anonymous User]

OP hurr.

Do the whole networking thing. Reach out to alums of your school (undergrad and law school) that are working in your target market(s). Establish some rapport. This is a great thing to bring up in your interviews: "Well, I met with so and so and discussed the firm. She said x and z and that really appeals to me. etc. etc."

Be a good interviewer. Thankfully, this is something that comes naturally to me (unlike law school exams, apparently). If you aren't good, practice practice practice. Do mock interviews. Go to networking events and practice talking to practicing attorneys just to get used to it. This step is absolutely essential. No firm is going to callback/offer a candidate with shit grades who also has a shit personality. You need to show that you are a great fit and that you are someone who will be able to communicate with clients without being a liability.

Oh, and most importantly, go to a t14. Bottom 25% at a non-14 means zero chance at biglaw. Obvi.[/quote]


You just don't happen to be the OP hahahaha, but I do second all of your points. I transferred from T70 to T14 and targeted NY solely.[/quote]

I meant OP of the post he was quoting. Not OP of the thread.[/quote]

My bad.

[Anonymous User]

I find it interesting that folks think that law review/journal is completely irrelevant to transactional work. I have to disagree. For one, you get to write about a topic and become an expert in that particular area of law. What better way to set yourself apart especially if you happen to write about or have an interest in a niche area of the law that X law firm happens to practice? You don't have to write about a circuit split on a controversial issue to be published. And it's not your ability to write about the topic per se. But the knowledge acquired while writing a 30+ page paper is pretty significant (in my opinion anyway).

Second, editing and the ability to find sources is always a beneficial skill to have. Perhaps I'm perverse, but I actually enjoy the process. It also hones your attention to detail. If you're reviewing or comparing drafts, I think having been on a journal makes this a bit easier. I know no one cares about the bluebook in memo writing, but I still think it's useful.

In any event, congrats to folks who secured jobs without being on journal or moot court. No doubt you will be fine since you've already cleared the biggest hurdle.

Journal is such an inefficient means of transferring those skills (any good WE - banking, consulting, etc. refines citing/fact checking in a more practical context; a good seminar refines writing ability in an identical fashion over a shorter time horizon; etc.) and journal is a horrible value proposition (two year commitment, mundane responsibilities, no course credit, etc. for a marginal increase in skillset). Only journal that makes any sense (imo) is law review, and even then driven primarily for prestige reasons.

Journal is great for some - perhaps if you have poor (or no) WE; want to clerk (fine), do appellate lit (fine), or teach (lulz); have no other extracurriculars; etc. - but otherwise seems like a time-suck.

/T-14, V20, no journal

[sinfiery]

Post Hoc it's great and all but I still dunno if I could justify the decision to forgo a journal ex ante without auto-offer grades.


Bravo to you if it worked out though, you are indeed living the 2L dream.

[Anonymous User]

Post Hoc it's great and all but I still dunno if I could justify the decision to forgo a journal ex ante without auto-offer grades.


Bravo to you if it worked out though, you are indeed living the 2L dream.

I agree and was an above poster - I was freaking out b/c i didn't get journal (didn't want MC) but was so concerned I wouldn't even get CBs, let alone offers. Not trying to brag but i think my interview skills and the fact I have a good background and WE helped b/c I managed 4+ offers at very respectable BL firms.

So, don't bank on just getting a job w/o MC.journal and good grades or decent grades - not a guarantee - you still need to bust your ass then worry about having to decide between more than one firm. Great problem to have but also sucks.

[Anonymous User]

Does moot court or journal really mean anything nowadays? In my school almost everyone is on some journal as long as you participate write on competition.

[Anonymous User]

I find it interesting that folks think that law review/journal is completely irrelevant to transactional work. I have to disagree. For one, you get to write about a topic and become an expert in that particular area of law. What better way to set yourself apart especially if you happen to write about or have an interest in a niche area of the law that X law firm happens to practice? You don't have to write about a circuit split on a controversial issue to be published. And it's not your ability to write about the topic per se. But the knowledge acquired while writing a 30+ page paper is pretty significant (in my opinion anyway).

Second, editing and the ability to find sources is always a beneficial skill to have. Perhaps I'm perverse, but I actually enjoy the process. It also hones your attention to detail. If you're reviewing or comparing drafts, I think having been on a journal makes this a bit easier. I know no one cares about the bluebook in memo writing, but I still think it's useful.

In any event, congrats to folks who secured jobs without being on journal or moot court. No doubt you will be fine since you've already cleared the biggest hurdle.

Journal is such an inefficient means of transferring those skills (any good WE - banking, consulting, etc. refines citing/fact checking in a more practical context; a good seminar refines writing ability in an identical fashion over a shorter time horizon; etc.) and journal is a horrible value proposition (two year commitment, mundane responsibilities, no course credit, etc. for a marginal increase in skillset). Only journal that makes any sense (imo) is law review, and even then driven primarily for prestige reasons.

Journal is great for some - perhaps if you have poor (or no) WE; want to clerk (fine), do appellate lit (fine), or teach (lulz); have no other extracurriculars; etc. - but otherwise seems like a time-suck.

/T-14, V20, no journal

most school I know has course credit for the journals