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I felt like there was enough interest on TLS in this practice area to warrant its own thread.

Anyone know what kinds of stats you need to land an EOIR clerkship?

Good grades never hurt, but experience is probably more important.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Good grades never hurt, but experience is probably more important.

that is surprising. i thought DOJ was all about rank/grades/journal. maybe i DO have a chance!

BlueLotus wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Good grades never hurt, but experience is probably more important.

that is surprising. i thought DOJ was all about rank/grades/journal. maybe i DO have a chance!

EOIR seems to be less about that than the other divisions. Don't get me wrong, grades + experience is probably the best place to be, but grades without experience isn't going to do it. And I don't think any of the divisions care super significantly about journal (for the ones that care about grades, maybe, but I don't get the sense that it's a priority).

I don't know if previous years' threads have been pruned, but if not, they're a good place to look for representative stats.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Good grades never hurt, but experience is probably more important.

that is surprising. i thought DOJ was all about rank/grades/journal. maybe i DO have a chance!

EOIR seems to be less about that than the other divisions. Don't get me wrong, grades + experience is probably the best place to be, but grades without experience isn't going to do it. And I don't think any of the divisions care super significantly about journal (for the ones that care about grades, maybe, but I don't get the sense that it's a priority).

I don't know if previous years' threads have been pruned, but if not, they're a good place to look for representative stats.

yeah, my resume BLEEDS immigration.

Anyone know what stats Immigrant Justice Corps is looking for?

BlueLotus wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Good grades never hurt, but experience is probably more important.

that is surprising. i thought DOJ was all about rank/grades/journal. maybe i DO have a chance!

EOIR seems to be less about that than the other divisions. Don't get me wrong, grades + experience is probably the best place to be, but grades without experience isn't going to do it. And I don't think any of the divisions care super significantly about journal (for the ones that care about grades, maybe, but I don't get the sense that it's a priority).

I don't know if previous years' threads have been pruned, but if not, they're a good place to look for representative stats.

yeah, my resume BLEEDS immigration.

Hispanic first and last name, or did you work at chipotle?

dowu wrote:
yeah, my resume BLEEDS immigration.

Hispanic first and last name, or did you work at chipotle?[/quote]

LOL, no, just a lot of experience with immigration legal services and Spanish/Hindi fluency.

is immigration Legal Aid (doing asylum, U/T, VAWA, SIJS, etc.) transferable to big/mid firms that specialize in immigration law?

BUMP. Anyone apply to BDS' Immigration Practice?

BlueLotus wrote:is immigration Legal Aid (doing asylum, U/T, VAWA, SIJS, etc.) transferable to big/mid firms that specialize in immigration law?

No, because there's generally no such thing as big/mid firms that do defensive immigration work. Big immigration firms like Fragomen (which is really the only big firm focused on immigration) do volume work in H-1Bs and L-1s, as well as PERMS and EB-series IVs and general compliance. They might do a handful of save-the-immigrants VAWA or asylum cases, but that's nothing more than PR window-dressing. Immigration Legal Aid qualifies you for work in small law, which is the only kind of law firm that does removal defense.

There are two types of immigration practice: defensive and affirmative. Legal Aid-style work is almost all defensive work, taking place after ICE has issued an NTA. It's grueling work, and often little more than a delaying game to buy your client as much time as possible in the US before accepting voluntary departure. Affirmative practice is cushy work doing mostly business visas and family-based adjustment of status. I've been practicing immigration for over six years, and stopped taking removal defense cases several years ago. Too hard to make money, and immigration court sucks.

Macunaíma wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:is immigration Legal Aid (doing asylum, U/T, VAWA, SIJS, etc.) transferable to big/mid firms that specialize in immigration law?

No, because there's generally no such thing as big/mid firms that do defensive immigration work. Big immigration firms like Fragomen (which is really the only big firm focused on immigration) do volume work in H-1Bs and L-1s, as well as PERMS and EB-series IVs and general compliance. They might do a handful of save-the-immigrants VAWA or asylum cases, but that's nothing more than PR window-dressing. Immigration Legal Aid qualifies you for work in small law, which is the only kind of law firm that does removal defense.

There are two types of immigration practice: defensive and affirmative. Legal Aid-style work is almost all defensive work, taking place after ICE has issued an NTA. It's grueling work, and often little more than a delaying game to buy your client as much time as possible in the US before accepting voluntary departure. Affirmative practice is cushy work doing mostly business visas and family-based adjustment of status. I've been practicing immigration for over six years, and stopped taking removal defense cases several years ago. Too hard to make money, and immigration court sucks.

Thanks for the perspective. It is my understanding that small immigration firms have a reputation of being rather shady/sketch institutions. Is this your experience?

In addition, is it worth the $50 to become a student member of AILA?

BlueLotus wrote:Thanks for the perspective. It is my understanding that small immigration firms have a reputation of being rather shady/sketch institutions. Is this your experience?

In addition, is it worth the $50 to become a student member of AILA?

Small law firms in general have a reputation for being rather shady and sketchy. Yes, there are a lot of hack practitioners in immigration law. Someone who has been removed and is inadmissible for ten years doesn't have a lot of recourse against a shady lawyer who botched his removal case. Many practitioners leverage ethnic and language connections to an immigrant community, but do appalling work. The worst are general practitioners who dabble in immigration law. It's not a practice area for dilettantes - you need to devote yourself to immigration if you're going to be an effective practitioner.

Removal defense is fantastically complex, and IJs often don't know recent developments in the law. ICE attorneys litigate this all week, and are formidable adversaries. Affirmative practice is much easier and more laid-back, as well as far more lucrative than defensive practice.

Absolutely invest in an AILA membership if you're at all interested in immigration - it's a fantastic organization. I've been a member since law school. My yearly membership costs more than any of my bar admissions, but you are not a credible immigration practitioners if you aren't a member of AILA. Definitely go to one of their conferences for CLEs. I go to the big one every other year (it was in Boston at the end of June this year), and usually get around 25 CLE credits. It's about $800 if you sign up in advance, but essential to keep up to date on the practice area. There are quarterly conferences throughout the year too, sometimes in cool places like Mexico City or Panama City.

Macunaíma wrote:

BlueLotus wrote:Thanks for the perspective. It is my understanding that small immigration firms have a reputation of being rather shady/sketch institutions. Is this your experience?

In addition, is it worth the $50 to become a student member of AILA?

Small law firms in general have a reputation for being rather shady and sketchy. Yes, there are a lot of hack practitioners in immigration law. Someone who has been removed and is inadmissible for ten years doesn't have a lot of recourse against a shady lawyer who botched his removal case. Many practitioners leverage ethnic and language connections to an immigrant community, but do appalling work. The worst are general practitioners who dabble in immigration law. It's not a practice area for dilettantes - you need to devote yourself to immigration if you're going to be an effective practitioner.

Removal defense is fantastically complex, and IJs often don't know recent developments in the law. ICE attorneys litigate this all week, and are formidable adversaries. Affirmative practice is much easier and more laid-back, as well as far more lucrative than defensive practice.

Absolutely invest in an AILA membership if you're at all interested in immigration - it's a fantastic organization. I've been a member since law school. My yearly membership costs more than any of my bar admissions, but you are not a credible immigration practitioners if you aren't a member of AILA. Definitely go to one of their conferences for CLEs. I go to the big one every other year (it was in Boston at the end of June this year), and usually get around 25 CLE credits. It's about $800 if you sign up in advance, but essential to keep up to date on the practice area. There are quarterly conferences throughout the year too, sometimes in cool places like Mexico City or Panama City.

Thanks.

Do you know what sorts of stats are needed to get a gig with USCIS? Do they hire straight out of law school? I know of an alum of my school who is counsel for them. She was EJW fellow doing work with unaccompanied minors for three years before working at USCIS.

BlueLotus wrote:Do you know what sorts of stats are needed to get a gig with USCIS? Do they hire straight out of law school? I know of an alum of my school who is counsel for them. She was EJW fellow doing work with unaccompanied minors for three years before working at USCIS.

Nope, but USCIS (or anything at Homeland Security) is not reputed to be one of the happier federal bureaucracies. I dated a lawyer for them briefly in DC, and she hated her job.

Given that immigration law is based on such a complex regulatory scheme, is taking Admin Law a must? I hear that it is very dry and a gunner minefield, but if it will make me more competitive, I would take it!

Does Immigrant Justice Corps ask for transcripts? Anyone have any idea how many apps they received last cycle?

Are EOIR the government attorneys at immigration court? If so I'd rather be a janitor.

Desert Fox wrote:Are EOIR the government attorneys at immigration court? If so I'd rather be a janitor.

No, by EOIR (Executive Office of Immigration Review) I meant a clerkship for an immigration judge (IJ), doing legal research and helping him/her write decisions. The government attorneys work for ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement).

Have C&F issues that may lead to me not getting barred. How feasible of a plan is it to work as a BIA Accredited Rep for an immigration non-profit? They perform pretty much the same function as an immigration attorney.

Desert Fox wrote:Are EOIR the government attorneys at immigration court? If so I'd rather be a janitor.

Why would you rather be a janitor?

Anonymous User wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Are EOIR the government attorneys at immigration court? If so I'd rather be a janitor.

Why would you rather be a janitor?

I would find it more rewarding to clean a toilet than spend all day making sure illegal immigrants get deported. Seems boring as fuck.

I am interested in DoJ: EOIR. Is interning for them during law school a must in order to get the postgrad clerkship? I have other immigration-related internships and coursework.

Manali wrote:I am interested in DoJ: EOIR. Is interning for them during law school a must in order to get the postgrad clerkship? I have other immigration-related internships and coursework.

I can imagine it being helpful in making hiring decisions, especially if you have interned at the court/office for which you're applying. I interned in Civil Rights and when my office was making DOJ honors hiring decisions, they seemed to place certain value on applicants who have had experience within DOJ previously.

Desert Fox wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:Are EOIR the government attorneys at immigration court? If so I'd rather be a janitor.

Why would you rather be a janitor?

I would find it more rewarding to clean a toilet than spend all day making sure illegal immigrants get deported. Seems boring as fuck.

I worked at ICE during my 1L summer and they took us on a "field trip" to immigration court. It was depressing as shit watching the government attorney wheel out a dolly piled high with about 50 cases she had to get through in an hour and a half. Also the fact that there's no right to legal counsel, it's just beating up on the defenseless. They have to focus so much on the detained docket that if there's a stay in a non-detained case, that person won't be in front of a judge again until 2018-2019.