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Both NYC. Interested in corporate M&A or private equity work. Really enjoyed both places but can't get a sense for what would be the optimal place to start my career - smaller, more transparent firm vs big-name 1000+ person firm.

I think a lot of people are voting Weil due to the large disparity in vault ranking so I wouldn't follow the absentee poll results too closely

I would go to Weil for career flexibility, both in terms of moving around the country and lateraling out. Willkie is fair game if you want a solid firm to stick with/build a career. There are rumblings of Weil financial issues, don't have that info on Willkie.

jbagelboy wrote:I think a lot of people are voting Weil due to the large disparity in vault ranking so I wouldn't follow the absentee poll results too closely

I would go to Weil for career flexibility, both in terms of moving around the country and lateraling out. Willkie is fair game if you want a solid firm to stick with/build a career. There are rumblings of Weil financial issues, don't have that info on Willkie.

They're getting out of Florida because they don't think going after South America is the right move. All of the rumors I've heard were about this rather than any New York/Firmwide problems.

JamMasterJ wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:I think a lot of people are voting Weil due to the large disparity in vault ranking so I wouldn't follow the absentee poll results too closely

I would go to Weil for career flexibility, both in terms of moving around the country and lateraling out. Willkie is fair game if you want a solid firm to stick with/build a career. There are rumblings of Weil financial issues, don't have that info on Willkie.

They're getting out of Florida because they don't think going after South America is the right move. All of the rumors I've heard were about this rather than any New York/Firmwide problems.

I defer to you

It's not something I'd worry too much about as an associate either way, although Weil has developed the reputation for canning their people

jbagelboy wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:I think a lot of people are voting Weil due to the large disparity in vault ranking so I wouldn't follow the absentee poll results too closely

I would go to Weil for career flexibility, both in terms of moving around the country and lateraling out. Willkie is fair game if you want a solid firm to stick with/build a career. There are rumblings of Weil financial issues, don't have that info on Willkie.

They're getting out of Florida because they don't think going after South America is the right move. All of the rumors I've heard were about this rather than any New York/Firmwide problems.

I defer to you

It's not something I'd worry too much about as an associate either way, although Weil has developed the reputation for canning their people

To be fair, this is all secondhand. So I heard about the thing last year, which basically didn't involve NYC. Was there something else that actually involved the NY office.


BTW, I really liked the Willkie people if you're into bro-y intelectual types.

jbagelboy wrote:I think a lot of people are voting Weil due to the large disparity in vault ranking so I wouldn't follow the absentee poll results too closely

I would go to Weil for career flexibility, both in terms of moving around the country and lateraling out. Willkie is fair game if you want a solid firm to stick with/build a career. There are rumblings of Weil financial issues, don't have that info on Willkie.

"rumblings" meaning what? People say this bs all the time (rumblings, rumors, word on the street, etc.). 75% of the time it's bullshit.

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:I think a lot of people are voting Weil due to the large disparity in vault ranking so I wouldn't follow the absentee poll results too closely

I would go to Weil for career flexibility, both in terms of moving around the country and lateraling out. Willkie is fair game if you want a solid firm to stick with/build a career. There are rumblings of Weil financial issues, don't have that info on Willkie.

"rumblings" meaning what? People say this bs all the time (rumblings, rumors, word on the street, etc.). 75% of the time it's bullshit.

Last year, PPP was down 2.x% so they cut 60 lawyers and 110 staffers. I would read into "Weil 2013 layoffs"

CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Anonymous User wrote:CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Lol id go the opposite for the exact same reason. Go Weil

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Lol id go the opposite for the exact same reason. Go Weil

Ditto

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Lol id go the opposite for the exact same reason. Go Weil

lol seriously? no

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Lol id go the opposite for the exact same reason. Go Weil

lol seriously? no

Sweet use of anon

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Lol id go the opposite for the exact same reason. Go Weil

lol seriously? no

Good input dude.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:CBs with both firms (though accepted offer elsewhere). I'd honestly go with Willkie for stability + culture.

Lol id go the opposite for the exact same reason. Go Weil

lol seriously? no

Good input dude.

just strange to hear stability being sold as a pro for Weil.

Dumb use of anon all around.

OP's factors sound so nonspecific that I see no downside to Weil. Weil all the way.

Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

It's law, dude. I can't think of any other industry that splooshes over a good ole ranking quite as much as ours.

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

I mean, I know Vault is an incredibly unscientific proxy by which to measure something like this, but my general understanding is that there's at least some correlation between Vault rankings and prestige (which, in this profession, translates into the clients, work, and exit options you have), at least when it comes to comparing corporate practices in NYC. Obviously it may depend on specific goals (like bankruptcy for Weil), but I'm surprised to see this being as close as it is.

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

I mean, I know Vault is an incredibly unscientific proxy by which to measure something like this, but my general understanding is that there's at least some correlation between Vault rankings and prestige (which, in this profession, translates into the clients, work, and exit options you have), at least when it comes to comparing corporate practices in NYC. Obviously it may depend on specific goals (like bankruptcy for Weil), but I'm surprised to see this being as close as it is.

For exit options, I could see some merit in giving Vault a closer look. If OP cares about that, Weil might be the better option in that regard.

Layoffs happened a full year ago, and even near that time Corporate was busy. Saying that Weil has a reputation for canning associates is like saying someone should choose V50 over Latham due to their layoffs.

Since then, Corporate has been even busier and from what I hear ended up recruited 3Ls. The financial rumblings rumor is bs, especially if the one source is the 2013 layoffs (which I'm sure is the case).

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

I mean, I know Vault is an incredibly unscientific proxy by which to measure something like this, but my general understanding is that there's at least some correlation between Vault rankings and prestige (which, in this profession, translates into the clients, work, and exit options you have), at least when it comes to comparing corporate practices in NYC. Obviously it may depend on specific goals (like bankruptcy for Weil), but I'm surprised to see this being as close as it is.

http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

I'd say that's about right. Weil may be a "V10," but I think most New York attorneys would say it's below Debevoise and Paul Weiss. It's certainly not on the same level as CSM/S&C/DPW/STB/Skadden/Cleary for corporate work, even though it was like #6 a couple years ago. Notably, Willkie's reputation in NY is much better than its national "reputation."

Vault rankings should not be a deciding factor, but to be quite honest I really do not understand why Weil has been so high on the national Vault rankings. That's always puzzled me a bit.

SLS_AMG wrote:http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

I'd say that's about right. Weil may be a "V10," but I think most New York attorneys would say it's below Debevoise and Paul Weiss. It's certainly not on the same level as CSM/S&C/DPW/STB/Skadden/Cleary for corporate work, even though it was like #6 a couple years ago. Notably, Willkie's reputation in NY is much better than its national "reputation."

Vault rankings should not be a deciding factor, but to be quite honest I really do not understand why Weil has been so high on the national Vault rankings. That's always puzzled me a bit.

I don't think NY corporate attorneys will say that at all... and to even suggest that Willkie & Weil's corporate practice groups are in the same league is a bit much IMO. Without even addressing national reputations, Weil's NY M&A group is Band 2 elite, along with Cleary, Deb, and Kirkland; Willkie NY is Band 4.

Band 1

Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP
Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP
Simpson Thacher & bartlett llp
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP & Affiliates
Sullivan & Cromwell LLP
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz

Band 2

Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
Debevoise & Plimpton LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP

Band 3

Latham & Watkins LLP
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Shearman & Sterling LLP

Band 4

Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP
Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP

SLS_AMG wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

I mean, I know Vault is an incredibly unscientific proxy by which to measure something like this, but my general understanding is that there's at least some correlation between Vault rankings and prestige (which, in this profession, translates into the clients, work, and exit options you have), at least when it comes to comparing corporate practices in NYC. Obviously it may depend on specific goals (like bankruptcy for Weil), but I'm surprised to see this being as close as it is.

http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

I'd say that's about right. Weil may be a "V10," but I think most New York attorneys would say it's below Debevoise and Paul Weiss. It's certainly not on the same level as CSM/S&C/DPW/STB/Skadden/Cleary for corporate work, even though it was like #6 a couple years ago. Notably, Willkie's reputation in NY is much better than its national "reputation."

Vault rankings should not be a deciding factor, but to be quite honest I really do not understand why Weil has been so high on the national Vault rankings. That's always puzzled me a bit.

Can't speak for lit, but Weil's M&A and PEMA groups are definitely ranked in the elite of NYC and is trying to get even better. Corporate practices are crushing it there now, they hired a bunch of 3Ls since they under hired, and I know their other corporate practices are all ranked highly nationally on chambers. As M&A continues over the next few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see Weil continually get big name deals.

The layoffs were only in the complex commercial lit practice and did not affect NYC. Weil NYC is a very safe place to be from everything I have read and from speaking to people about it.

That said, Wilkie and Weil were similar firms to me. Both firms had out-going people, partners were pretty likeable and easy to talk to, and both are NYC corporate powerhouses. Weil is like a more prestigious Wilkie, so I would just go with your gut, because it doesn't really matter in the end.

SLS_AMG wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Is Willkie really that good of an option? I know Weil has had some financial issues really recently and that Vault doesn't mean anything, but Weil is a V10, and Willkie is a V50. Vault is incredibly unscientific, but generally people say it's most helpful when comparing NYC corporate options.

it's unfortunate that so many people rely on this reasoning

I mean, I know Vault is an incredibly unscientific proxy by which to measure something like this, but my general understanding is that there's at least some correlation between Vault rankings and prestige (which, in this profession, translates into the clients, work, and exit options you have), at least when it comes to comparing corporate practices in NYC. Obviously it may depend on specific goals (like bankruptcy for Weil), but I'm surprised to see this being as close as it is.

http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/l ... ?sRankID=9

I'd say that's about right. Weil may be a "V10," but I think most New York attorneys would say it's below Debevoise and Paul Weiss. It's certainly not on the same level as CSM/S&C/DPW/STB/Skadden/Cleary for corporate work, even though it was like #6 a couple years ago. Notably, Willkie's reputation in NY is much better than its national "reputation."

Vault rankings should not be a deciding factor, but to be quite honest I really do not understand why Weil has been so high on the national Vault rankings. That's always puzzled me a bit.

Weil is not below Debevoise and Paul Weiss for corporate work in New York. It's more like Cravath, Skadden, SullCrom, Davis Polk and Simpson (firms in Band 1 Elite for both corporate and litigation in New York) and then Weil is right behind along with a handful of others. Weil's corporate group has been killing it and its Vault ranking isn't far off. Having said that, Willkie is also awesome and wouldn't be a wrong choice to pick it over Weil.