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What the hell does "competitive pay" mean? What dollar amount should you ask for with these firms? I hate it when firms advertise that they offer a "competitive salary" but then still ask you what your pay expectations are.

For example, last year I interviewed at a medium-sized firm in a market where the big firms were paying $160K and the litigation boutiques were paying in the $130-145K range. When asked at the interview, I told them I was looking for something in low-six figure range. Apparently, this offended the hiring partner because he said attorneys like me aren't worth more than $70K/year. This at a firm that requires a minimum billable requirement of 1850/year.

Any advice on to what questions to ask a future firm that offers "competitive pay" before they ask me for my salary requirements? Mid-sized firms are all over the place when it comes to pay and billable rates. I want to ask them how much they would bill me at to their clients and give a number based on that value, but I feel like that question would be inappropriate.

Medium size firm for business clients (non ID) at six figs doesn't seem unreasonable

So if it helps I don't think u were off base considering you have an AIII clerkship right

I'm pretty sure "competitive pay" generally means "our pay is so below competitive that we're too embarrassed to state the amount publicly." Good for you for calling a firm out on it.

I've always seen it suggested that you answer any question about pay expectations with something like "commensurate with the market and my qualifications." It's such a shitty thing to do to make job applicants try to suggest a salary.

Your expectation seemed reasonable to me. But I don't think you should ask about salary in that situation until you get an offer unless they bring it up.

Well there are two situations where this keeps coming up. Some job postings require you to state your salary requirements in addition to your resume. Then it inevitably comes up during the actual interview.

I've tried to be open and diplomatic by telling them that I realize there is more to a salary besides base pay including benefits, bonuses, and advancement potential, but they still demand a gross salary value.

legalese_retard wrote:For example, last year I interviewed at a medium-sized firm in a market where the big firms were paying $160K and the litigation boutiques were paying in the $130-145K range. When asked at the interview, I told them I was looking for something in low-six figure range. Apparently, this offended the hiring partner because he said attorneys like me aren't worth more than $70K/year. This at a firm that requires a minimum billable requirement of 1850/year.

The proper response, for someone with the guts to say it (the interviewee equivalent of "Good day sir"), is "I'm sorry. I seem to have wasted your time." (And I'm not saying that I'm that person, though I have terminated an interview early for another reason when it appeared to go irrecoverably off track.) Generally speaking, if your expectations and theirs are that divergent, you don't want to work there.

They're also creating a lot of problems for themselves if they're going to interview under the misleading description of "competitive" compensation but then offer compensation that's not competitive. It's not like they're going to pick from the bottom of the pile of applications, so almost without exception 70k is going to fall outside the range of reasonableness that the interviewees have in mind. They're left either extending their interviews and inviting more interviewees or simply offering the only candidate who didn't blanche at that ridiculous statement.

sumner wrote:Your expectation seemed reasonable to me. But I don't think you should ask about salary in that situation until you get an offer unless they bring it up.

It appears they did bring it up.

Other than in lockstep organizations (which outside of biglaw and bigov aren't common) you negotiate about salary.

Figure out how much you want and then add some fat on top for negotiation room.

You think you are 100k? Ask for 120.

Don't pretend this is beneath you or odd or TTT. It's how jobs work.

Desert Fox wrote:Other than in lockstep organizations (which outside of biglaw and bigov aren't common) you negotiate about salary.

Figure out how much you want and then add some fat on top for negotiation room.

You think you are 100k? Ask for 120.

Don't pretend this is beneath you or odd or TTT. It's how jobs work.

Unless they list a salary or give it during the interview and it actually is competitive, then you look like an ass for trying to get more (I think).