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I have noticed some firms that are at the top of their game (eg Cravath in NY, Schulte in some corp areas) have a lot of detractors while other, comparably strong firms get fawned over like crazy (eg MTO in Cali, Sussman in lit). Are the really good firms that people rip on in here really such a bad experience? Or is this just tls herd mentality? Many thanks.

Anonymous User wrote:I have noticed some firms that are at the top of their game (eg Cravath in NY, Schulte in some corp areas) have a lot of detractors while other, comparably strong firms get fawned over like crazy (eg MTO in Cali, Sussman in lit). Are the really good firms that people rip on in here really such a bad experience? Or is this just tls herd mentality? Many thanks.

Cravath is more hours, that's merely a fact. Schulte gets ripped on because one person there was comparing it to places like Cravath and SullCrom. You also have to consider that most people who post on TLS during law school stop once they start a firm. People are more likely to post on here if they dislike a firm than if they like it, because the risk-reward doesn't check out. For example a firm is probably never going to retain someone because you glorify them on TLS, but marketing them with no permission to do so can get you into trouble. Unless you see a lot of no offers, I wouldn't buy into any one firm's detractors.

Seems to me that to some extent, the TLS hate is accurate (e.g., Cravath is Wachtell hours without the pay, S&C doesn't screen for personality, etc), to some extent it may be herd mentality, but to some extent views here are shaped by certain prolific posters. I've noticed, for example, that there is a DPW associate who uses anonymous posts to jump to the firm's defense whenever anyone says anything even slightly critical of DPW (as if his entire sense of self-worth depends on what the internet thinks of his employer), whereas no one seems to respond when TLS is critical of various other firms. Some associates are better at defending their firms than others - obviously, the Schulte associate/summer associate took it too far.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I have noticed some firms that are at the top of their game (eg Cravath in NY, Schulte in some corp areas) have a lot of detractors while other, comparably strong firms get fawned over like crazy (eg MTO in Cali, Sussman in lit). Are the really good firms that people rip on in here really such a bad experience? Or is this just tls herd mentality? Many thanks.

Cravath is more hours, that's merely a fact.

Cravath Is "more hours" than what? More hours than a lifestyle firm like Sussman?

To be fair, though, this anon bro concluded his assertion with "that's merely a fact," so I guess explanation isn't necessary.

Did OP just imply Schulte is "comparably strong" to Cravath and MTO?

The troll lives. Move along people

Asks herd, are you a herd? Nope no herd here. We're just a bunch of independent sheep living in the same general pasture.

DELG wrote:Asks herd, are you a herd? Nope no herd here. We're just a bunch of independent sheep living in the same general pasture.

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jbagelboy wrote:Did OP just imply Schulte is "comparably strong" to Cravath and MTO?

The troll lives. Move along people

C'mon. Be fair. The OP was just using examples of parallel outcomes. And Schulte is elite by any definition. I mean, one of the reasons people attend HYS is so that they'll have a chance at an elite outcome if they do well (e.g., bristow fellowship, scotus clerkship, schulte associate offer).

rpupkin wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:Did OP just imply Schulte is "comparably strong" to Cravath and MTO?

The troll lives. Move along people

C'mon. Be fair. The OP was just using examples of parallel outcomes. And Schulte is elite by any definition. I mean, one of the reasons people attend HYS is so that they'll have a chance at an elite outcome if they do well (e.g., bristow fellowship, scotus clerkship, schulte associate offer).

...my bad

rpupkin wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:Did OP just imply Schulte is "comparably strong" to Cravath and MTO?

The troll lives. Move along people

C'mon. Be fair. The OP was just using examples of parallel outcomes. And Schulte is elite by any definition. I mean, one of the reasons people attend HYS is so that they'll have a chance at an elite outcome if they do well (e.g., bristow fellowship, scotus clerkship, schulte associate offer).

Lol

Thanks for the input yall. And just to clear it up, I wasn't trying to do a thing with the Schulte comment. I just thought that there was at least some stuff they were REALLY good at even if the other firms I listed were better over all. In any event, most of your comments helped so thank you for that.

Can someone give some credence to the whole "Cravath works Wachtell hours" thing? Someone said it was a "fact" but I've never seen data on that. Also, why doesn't S&C get the same rep? Are S&C associates who work on the other side of the table let out earlier? Genuinely curious.

I think its a bit absurd that people try to choose offers by posting on TLS.

Anonymous User wrote:Can someone give some credence to the whole "Cravath works Wachtell hours" thing? Someone said it was a "fact" but I've never seen data on that. Also, why doesn't S&C get the same rep? Are S&C associates who work on the other side of the table let out earlier? Genuinely curious.

Cravath midlevels said they did, but I doubt there is any objective data on this stuff.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Can someone give some credence to the whole "Cravath works Wachtell hours" thing? Someone said it was a "fact" but I've never seen data on that. Also, why doesn't S&C get the same rep? Are S&C associates who work on the other side of the table let out earlier? Genuinely curious.

Cravath midlevels said they did, but I doubt there is any objective data on this stuff.

Thanks, Tiago. I think even taking this data people think it's easyto say that Cravath is so bad with hours while ignoring PW and S&C right next to them in the ranking. Though I do see there is a ~5 billable hour difference between Cravath and PW I don't think that's enough to discount PW working a lot too.

And thus, to echo Tiago's latter point, and what the OP is getting at, I think there does exist some degree of TLS hivemind in this regard.

People don't talk about Susman much, but when they do it's generally to say it's an unbearable sweat shop even compared to NYC firms (I personally don't think this is true but it's TLS CW). So I'm not sure where you get that they're so beloved.

TLS has a huge herd mentality but I'm not sure the info you get here is that much less useful than whatever you pick up in a half-day CB. They're both data points and they both have their drawbacks.