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I'm interested in litigation and international arbitration. Commitment to pro bono is also very important to me. Does anyone have any insight into how the culture at these two firms differs, opportunities they would each create for lateraling or exiting into a different career later if I felt like doing so, etc. All the people I met at both seemed very nice but I think I felt a bit more at home at A&P in terms of vibe, culture etc.

I would appreciate any thoughts.

I can't speak to Sidley, but I have an offer in hand from AP and thought the people are absolutely terrific. Their juniors work on really substantive lit projects as well. Nice office space. Definitely a firm built on it's lit practice, but it does well in corporate too.

Also, not sure about specializing at Sidley, but at AP they like heir litigators to be generalists at least for the beginning, so you'll see everything from White Collar to Products Liability and Mass Tort to General Commercial.

That sounds wonderful. My concern is that at Sidley I wouldn't be given as much substantive work since they seem to have a much higher associate to partner ration, and more bureaucracy.

Anonymous User wrote:Also, not sure about specializing at Sidley, but at AP they like heir litigators to be generalists at least for the beginning, so you'll see everything from White Collar to Products Liability and Mass Tort to General Commercial.

Nice, that is definitely a plus for A&P.

anyone want to stand up for Sidley?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Also, not sure about specializing at Sidley, but at AP they like heir litigators to be generalists at least for the beginning, so you'll see everything from White Collar to Products Liability and Mass Tort to General Commercial.

Nice, that is definitely a plus for A&P.

Sidley litigators also start off as generalists.

Anonymous User wrote:That sounds wonderful. My concern is that at Sidley I wouldn't be given as much substantive work since they seem to have a much higher associate to partner ration, and more bureaucracy.

I work in transactions so I can't comment on the substantive work aspect. However, Sidley's management is top notch. It's a very tightly run ship which places a (relatively) large emphasis on associate development.

Original anon- did you get an offer from A&P NY, if so when was your callback? I've been waiting for what seems like forever so I'm expecting a rejection

Anonymous User wrote:That sounds wonderful. My concern is that at Sidley I wouldn't be given as much substantive work since they seem to have a much higher associate to partner ration, and more bureaucracy.

Sidley has a pigeon holing system in place that will haveyou working on mainly one thing for a long time. You also have to choose after your SA what you want to do for the rest of your life. People are great though...

I've heard the people are pretty wonderful at both. Is there a perception out there that Sidley is a bigger name brand, and will thus provide more potential exit options?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:That sounds wonderful. My concern is that at Sidley I wouldn't be given as much substantive work since they seem to have a much higher associate to partner ration, and more bureaucracy.

Sidley has a pigeon holing system in place that will haveyou working on mainly one thing for a long time. You also have to choose after your SA what you want to do for the rest of your life. People are great though...

This is absolutely untrue, especially for litigation associates, who start off as generalists. And while it's true that you choose your practice group after your SA, it's not uncommon for associates to switch groups after a year or two. Frankly, I'd rather have that option than be forced into an arbitrary rotation system.

Anonymous User wrote:I've heard the people are pretty wonderful at both. Is there a perception out there that Sidley is a bigger name brand, and will thus provide more potential exit options?

same question

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:That sounds wonderful. My concern is that at Sidley I wouldn't be given as much substantive work since they seem to have a much higher associate to partner ration, and more bureaucracy.

Sidley has a pigeon holing system in place that will haveyou working on mainly one thing for a long time. You also have to choose after your SA what you want to do for the rest of your life. People are great though...

This is absolutely untrue, especially for litigation associates, who start off as generalists. And while it's true that you choose your practice group after your SA, it's not uncommon for associates to switch groups after a year or two. Frankly, I'd rather have that option than be forced into an arbitrary rotation system.

Really? Well I was told something else during my CB with transactional partners and associates. And also met with first and second year associates who said that it was mostly true but not necessarily a bad thing.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:That sounds wonderful. My concern is that at Sidley I wouldn't be given as much substantive work since they seem to have a much higher associate to partner ration, and more bureaucracy.

Sidley has a pigeon holing system in place that will haveyou working on mainly one thing for a long time. You also have to choose after your SA what you want to do for the rest of your life. People are great though...

This is absolutely untrue, especially for litigation associates, who start off as generalists. And while it's true that you choose your practice group after your SA, it's not uncommon for associates to switch groups after a year or two. Frankly, I'd rather have that option than be forced into an arbitrary rotation system.

Really? Well I was told something else during my CB with transactional partners and associates. And also met with first and second year associates who said that it was mostly true but not necessarily a bad thing.

I would imagine that most people don't switch because they simply like their group. The hybrid free-market SA assignment system lets you take on whatever projects you want, so most people have a decent idea of where they want to be by the end of the summer. I spoke with numerous associates who had switched groups or were in the process of switching (sometimes more than once) and none seemed to think it was an especially onerous process. Obviously the needs of the practice group will come first, but Sidley's corporate groups are booming right now and would probably be happy to have an extra body. Switching into a smaller group like Tax might prove more difficult.

I'm bumping this since I'm really still struggling to make a decision.

My biggest question is: if I ever wanted to lateral to another firm in a couple of years, would having Sidley NY on my resume open significantly more doors than Arnold & Porter NY?

Anonymous User wrote:I'm bumping this since I'm really still struggling to make a decision.

My biggest question is: if I ever wanted to lateral to another firm in a couple of years, would having Sidley NY on my resume open significantly more doors than Arnold & Porter NY?

I wouldn't based my decision on this factor. Try looking for other differences/things you care about. e.g. offer rate

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm bumping this since I'm really still struggling to make a decision.

My biggest question is: if I ever wanted to lateral to another firm in a couple of years, would having Sidley NY on my resume open significantly more doors than Arnold & Porter NY?

I wouldn't based my decision on this factor. Try looking for other differences/things you care about. e.g. offer rate

This is one of the most important factors to me. The both have basically 100% offer rates.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm bumping this since I'm really still struggling to make a decision.

My biggest question is: if I ever wanted to lateral to another firm in a couple of years, would having Sidley NY on my resume open significantly more doors than Arnold & Porter NY?

I wouldn't based my decision on this factor. Try looking for other differences/things you care about. e.g. offer rate

This is one of the most important factors to me. The both have basically 100% offer rates.

When considering that the ability to move to another firm probably depends on so many factors and that both firms have similar "prestige" any info we can provide related to exit opportunities will be of negligible value.

For what its worth, I had a CB with Sidley and thb I thought the people in litigation were great. They seemed honest, amicable, etc.

I guess I wasn't sure that they are similar in prestige. Sidley seemed to be higher ranked?

Anonymous User wrote:I guess I wasn't sure that they are similar in prestige. Sidley seemed to be higher ranked?

Sidley is undoubtedly more "prestigious" but that shouldn't really play into your decision too much. If you're concerned about exit ops outside of NYC, the primary benefit to going to Sidley will come from its nationwide presence and huge network.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm interested in litigation and international arbitration. Commitment to pro bono is also very important to me. Does anyone have any insight into how the culture at these two firms differs, opportunities they would each create for lateraling or exiting into a different career later if I felt like doing so, etc. All the people I met at both seemed very nice but I think I felt a bit more at home at A&P in terms of vibe, culture etc.

I would appreciate any thoughts.

According to NALP

Sidley - Average pro bono hours per associate last year 96.3
A&P - Average pro bono hours per associate last year 175.3

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I guess I wasn't sure that they are similar in prestige. Sidley seemed to be higher ranked?

Sidley is undoubtedly more "prestigious" but that shouldn't really play into your decision too much. If you're concerned about exit ops outside of NYC, the primary benefit to going to Sidley will come from its nationwide presence and huge network.

Okay, I see. So perhaps exit options will be more affected by the quality of my work/the responsibility I have rather than the vault ranking of the firm I go to (at least to some extent)? I don't really care about prestige but also don't want to shoot myself in the foot by going to the "less prestigious" firm and then having significantly reduced exit options if it turns out that A&P isn't where I want to spend my entire career.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm interested in litigation and international arbitration. Commitment to pro bono is also very important to me. Does anyone have any insight into how the culture at these two firms differs, opportunities they would each create for lateraling or exiting into a different career later if I felt like doing so, etc. All the people I met at both seemed very nice but I think I felt a bit more at home at A&P in terms of vibe, culture etc.

I would appreciate any thoughts.

According to NALP

Sidley - Average pro bono hours per associate last year 96.3
A&P - Average pro bono hours per associate last year 175.3

Yes, this is a huge plus for A&P. They do really awesome pro bono work and seem to have more of a genuine commitment to it.