Weil NY v. Kirkland NY for Bankruptcy Forum

[Anonymous User]

2L here having a very tough time deciding between Weil and Kirkland, both NYC. Strong interest/some background in restructuring but I would also like to try PE/M&A. I would have the opportunity to rotate through both at Weil, but Kirkland seems to have started locking summers into one group early. I think I will ultimately end up choosing restructuring at either firm, so I'm considering this a minor disadvantage for Kirkland.

I liked the bankruptcy and PEMA people I met at Weil better (I have done several visits), and I think I would be happier with the culture/people there. Kirkland seemed colder and the reputation as an intense place to work has been made apparent in my conversations with current and former associates. Having said that, I haven't actively disliked any of the Kirkland people I've met, I would just prefer a more social environment.

However, things are slower in Weil BK and Kirkland seems to be taking market share. I like that many of the Kirkland restructuring partners are on the younger side, and I think that could make for a more exciting environment as the group grows. If Kirkland continues on its current trajectory for the next few years, it seems like the firm could become what Weil was for the past decade. I hesitate to pass up an opportunity to join that kind of environment but, unfortunately, the landscape when I'll start in 2016 is a big unknown and I don't want to put too much weight on predictions about the future.

I'm not sure how I feel about the free market system at Kirkland. My gut tells me Weil's assignment system is safer in that it removes the need for juniors to play office politics, but I've also spoken with a midlevel at Weil was staffed almost exclusively on Lehman work for her/his entire career. I would like the opportunity to control my work a bit more and try a variety of things, but again - who knows if there will be another mega case that will suck up all my time at either firm in 2016.

The Weil layoffs are not a huge concern because I don't think Kirkland is necessarily above firing associates when the need arises. Basically, I don't expect to feel safer at either firm if things get tough.

So any input/thoughts on my observations from people familiar with one or both firms would be very much appreciated. I have until next week to decide.

[Pikappraider]

Are you sure you want to do bankruptcy? Everything I have read and people I have talked to say that it is a pretty slow practice group in this economy, mainly because of the low interest rates.

[Anonymous User]

This is based on my experience at Kirkland Chicago, but have no reason to think NY operates differently. I know several SAs this year who switched from restructuring to corporate (and know 1st and 2nd year associates have done the same), so you are definitely not trapped in bankruptcy if you don't like it. The switches were also gradual, so they all had the opportunity to at least sample corporate work before switching.

This of course could be viewed as a negative that people are trying to get out of K&E's restructuring group, but my perception was just that they all liked the firm but found PE work to be a better fit. Either way, Kirkland is really busy in corporate and restructuring, so you're not going to be locked into either group as a summer or even a first year.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Are you sure you want to do bankruptcy? Everything I have read and people I have talked to say that it is a pretty slow practice group in this economy, mainly because of the low interest rates.

BK is slow right now, but it's a counter-cyclical practice that will pick back up eventually. Appreciate the concern though.

This is based on my experience at Kirkland Chicago, but have no reason to think NY operates differently. I know several SAs this year who switched from restructuring to corporate (and know 1st and 2nd year associates have done the same), so you are definitely not trapped in bankruptcy if you don't like it. The switches were also gradual, so they all had the opportunity to at least sample corporate work before switching.

This of course could be viewed as a negative that people are trying to get out of K&E's restructuring group, but my perception was just that they all liked the firm but found PE work to be a better fit. Either way, Kirkland is really busy in corporate and restructuring, so you're not going to be locked into either group as a summer or even a first year.

Thanks for this - I didn't get a direct answer from my interviewers/recruiting as to whether SAs had the opportunity to try different work, but I guess that's reflective of the lack of a formal rotation period.

[Anonymous User]

2L here having a very tough time deciding between Weil and Kirkland, both NYC. Strong interest/some background in restructuring but I would also like to try PE/M&A. I would have the opportunity to rotate through both at Weil, but Kirkland seems to have started locking summers into one group early. I think I will ultimately end up choosing restructuring at either firm, so I'm considering this a minor disadvantage for Kirkland.

I liked the bankruptcy and PEMA people I met at Weil better (I have done several visits), and I think I would be happier with the culture/people there. Kirkland seemed colder and the reputation as an intense place to work has been made apparent in my conversations with current and former associates. Having said that, I haven't actively disliked any of the Kirkland people I've met, I would just prefer a more social environment.

However, things are slower in Weil BK and Kirkland seems to be taking market share. I like that many of the Kirkland restructuring partners are on the younger side, and I think that could make for a more exciting environment as the group grows. If Kirkland continues on its current trajectory for the next few years, it seems like the firm could become what Weil was for the past decade. I hesitate to pass up an opportunity to join that kind of environment but, unfortunately, the landscape when I'll start in 2016 is a big unknown and I don't want to put too much weight on predictions about the future.

I'm not sure how I feel about the free market system at Kirkland. My gut tells me Weil's assignment system is safer in that it removes the need for juniors to play office politics, but I've also spoken with a midlevel at Weil was staffed almost exclusively on Lehman work for her/his entire career. I would like the opportunity to control my work a bit more and try a variety of things, but again - who knows if there will be another mega case that will suck up all my time at either firm in 2016.

The Weil layoffs are not a huge concern because I don't think Kirkland is necessarily above firing associates when the need arises. Basically, I don't expect to feel safer at either firm if things get tough.

So any input/thoughts on my observations from people familiar with one or both firms would be very much appreciated. I have until next week to decide.

The worry about trying out different things is misfounded. The only reason they ask for practice group interest is for the sake of organization. You can try out anything which is a blessing of the free market system.

Kirkland already is the old Weil. They're raking in all of the biggest cases and they are swamped right now with work. All of this while Weil is conducting layoffs.

Kirkland also gives more responsibility. While at Weil you can be stuck on one thing on a megacase for three years, Kirkland has a lot of middle market deals from their PE work. On those cases, I've seen third years running the show. Third years. You won't do this until much later on at Weil.

I think this is an easy choice. Take advantage of the upswing.

[Pikappraider]

OP here.

Are you sure you want to do bankruptcy? Everything I have read and people I have talked to say that it is a pretty slow practice group in this economy, mainly because of the low interest rates.

BK is slow right now, but it's a counter-cyclical practice that will pick back up eventually. Appreciate the concern though.

This is based on my experience at Kirkland Chicago, but have no reason to think NY operates differently. I know several SAs this year who switched from restructuring to corporate (and know 1st and 2nd year associates have done the same), so you are definitely not trapped in bankruptcy if you don't like it. The switches were also gradual, so they all had the opportunity to at least sample corporate work before switching.

This of course could be viewed as a negative that people are trying to get out of K&E's restructuring group, but my perception was just that they all liked the firm but found PE work to be a better fit. Either way, Kirkland is really busy in corporate and restructuring, so you're not going to be locked into either group as a summer or even a first year.

Thanks for this - I didn't get a direct answer from my interviewers/recruiting as to whether SAs had the opportunity to try different work, but I guess that's reflective of the lack of a formal rotation period.

Either way I think I would go with Kirkland. Both are great firms so you can't really go wrong either way. ke just seems a bit more consistent/stable

[Anonymous User]

People suggesting that Weil is unstable or still in the midst of layoffs are misguided. The firm, from what I know, appears to be picking up steam after trimming loose ends last year in laying people off.

Still, neither is a bad choice. I might suggest Weil simply because NYC is the firm's nerve center - and I'm generally a fan of beginning your career at a firm's head office.

[Anonymous User]

People suggesting that Weil is unstable or still in the midst of layoffs are misguided. The firm, from what I know, appears to be picking up steam after trimming loose ends last year in laying people off.

Still, neither is a bad choice. I might suggest Weil simply because NYC is the firm's nerve center - and I'm generally a fan of beginning your career at a firm's head office.

Not a good reason to choose a firm. Especially not in this circumstance--where most bankruptcies are in NY/DE and the bk department in NY is larger (in number) than the one in Chi

[Old Gregg]

Still, neither is a bad choice. I might suggest Weil simply because NYC is the firm's nerve center - and I'm generally a fan of beginning your career at a firm's head office.

Given the concentrations of power at K&E being only slightly in favor of the Chicago office (if that) as opposed to NY, this concern is not relevant.

[2014]

From a somewhat educated spectator's POV it seems like Kirkland is better equipped to handle small to medium sized cases while Weil pursues the next whale. Both have merits, but the Kirkland approach is going to excel in a good market while Weil's (if successful) will take market share back in a down economy. Personally I would take more comfort in the stability of the K&E system even if it means not getting to work on whatever the next Lehman or whatever is, but I can see either paying off in the long run. You absolutely should be willing to be adaptable though and lend your services to other groups as necessary to ensure you aren't first to go if layoffs do happen.

[Anonymous User]

From a somewhat educated spectator's POV it seems like Kirkland is better equipped to handle small to medium sized cases while Weil pursues the next whale. Both have merits, but the Kirkland approach is going to excel in a good market while Weil's (if successful) will take market share back in a down economy. Personally I would take more comfort in the stability of the K&E system even if it means not getting to work on whatever the next Lehman or whatever is, but I can see either paying off in the long run. You absolutely should be willing to be adaptable though and lend your services to other groups as necessary to ensure you aren't first to go if layoffs do happen.

You're kind of right--but not completely.

There are only so many firms that are great in bankruptcy. In any big case (Detroit, for example), all of the major players are going to be involved in some way. So you're not "missing out" on being involved--though you're not going to be representing the DIP.

Regardless, KE has been on more big cases than Weil as of late (and I mean very, very big--not just big for "boom" times--check the biggest ch 11 cases charts for the last few years), and I'm guessing this trend will continue--but I suppose time will tell. As far as "better equipped" goes... Weil and Kirkland have comparably sized BK departments--I believe KE is bigger if you count the Chicago office.

[mw115]

The impression I got was that Kirkland gets a lot of restructuring work from their PE base, including EFH. That being said, there have been only a few mega cases the past couple of years, and Weil represents as well on that list as any firm.