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Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:49 pm
by Anonymous User
A mix of offers and callbacks at Hogan Lovells NY, Kramer Levin, Stroock and Jones Day. Leaning towards lit but by no means sure.
Things important to me: 1. Ability to try multiple practice areas and begin as an associate in any of them (since I'm undecided) 2. Kind people, generally sociable culture, no screamers, not "fratty" 3. Decent work/life balance 4. Lean staffing, so juniors get a lot of experience.
Less important: Prestige, exit options, bonuses, Vault ranking.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:53 pm
by Anonymous User
Really? On those factors, Jones Day is winning? Not what I would expect. Interesting.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:04 pm
by Anonymous User
Jones Day doesn't make you choose a practice area until 8 months after you start as an associate. That sold me.
Idk about NYC office culture but everyone I met at the national summer associate event in DC was friendly.
Staffing is generally leaner than other firms. There are no screamers. Work life balance is relative. It is not a lifestyle firm by any means.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:50 pm
by Anonymous User
Jday is great at 1 through 3 and probably the worst at 4 (Jones day and night). Hogan and Kramer are the only ones remotely approaching lifestyle IMO. Stroock is absolutely out
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:A mix of offers and callbacks at Hogan Lovells NY, Kramer Levin, Stroock and Jones Day. Leaning towards lit but by no means sure.
Things important to me: 1. Ability to try multiple practice areas and begin as an associate in any of them (since I'm undecided) 2. Kind people, generally sociable culture, no screamers, not "fratty" 3. Decent work/life balance 4. Lean staffing, so juniors get a lot of experience.
Less important: Prestige, exit options, bonuses, Vault ranking.
You have two competing considerations in terms of "lean staffing and early responsibility" and "work-life balance."
But I'd say Hogan or Kramer. Jones Day is a bit of a black box on a number of things, but they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:05 pm
by FSK
New York and Work Life balance don't go together. Sorry bud.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:38 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote: but they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.
I'm joining Jones Day after graduation and I'm pretty sure this is untrue. If it was "Kramer Levin Night" it would be "Kramer Levin Night
and Weekends." Any Big law firm in NYC you will be working a ton of hours, and firms with more insane hours than most (Wachtell or Cravath) don't have this nickname but you can be sure associates are working around the clock.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:45 pm
by arnoldpalmer36
Hogan is known for lean staffing and a wide range of practice areas, really quality people, and a (relatively speaking for NYC biglaw) better work/life balance. The biggest detractor seems to be below-market bonuses. It would seem to align pretty well with what you specified.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:03 pm
by Anonymous User
Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find a firm where both #3 and #4 exist. For example, at Stroock, you'll definitely get #4. Its a small firm and deal teams are never more than a few people. In certain, smaller groups, you may be one of only a few juniors. However, that means way more falls on your shoulders and your hours will be crazy. I can't imagine a place where you would be able to find the former and the latter to coexist.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:07 pm
by Anonymous User
JD definitely satisfies your "not fratty" criterion. Probably the stalest and most milquetoast attorneys you'll find. Definitely stay away from Stroock though if this is important to you.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:12 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:A mix of offers and callbacks at Hogan Lovells NY, Kramer Levin, Stroock and Jones Day. Leaning towards lit but by no means sure.
Things important to me: 1. Ability to try multiple practice areas and begin as an associate in any of them (since I'm undecided) 2. Kind people, generally sociable culture, no screamers, not "fratty" 3. Decent work/life balance 4. Lean staffing, so juniors get a lot of experience.
Less important: Prestige, exit options, bonuses, Vault ranking.
I am a Stroock alum. Now in house. For the most part, it was a good experience. What practice group are you interested in?
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:46 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Jday is great at 1 through 3 and probably the worst at 4 (Jones day and night).
Anonymous User wrote: they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.
Yes, the reason being that it was easy to make a play on words. I think it is irresponsible to make blanket statements about a firm's "work-life balance" on TLS without any knowledge about the truth except for a funny moniker someone made up. This, combined with other people doing the same, makes things "conventional wisdom" on TLS.
There is no such thing as work-life balance in big law, especially in NYC. You will work hard everywhere. You will work days, nights, and weekends, everywhere. You will get emails during dinner with your family and you will have to step out - everywhere. There is an argument to be made that some firms are worse about this than others, but this largely depends on practice group, and even more so on the particular partner you work with.
I am not defending Jones Day, per se, I am just saying that it would be delusional to think Jones Day is worse than other law firms because someone thought it would be funny to call it Jones Day, Nights, and Weekends.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:09 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Probably the stalest and most milquetoast attorneys you'll find.
You're basing this off of how many of the 2400 attorneys at JD?
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:14 am
by filibuster
This is just dumb. OP if you want "lifestyle" and "balance" don't do (NYC) biglaw....
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:26 am
by chickenalfredo
Kramer Levin Out by Seven
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:57 am
by dixiecupdrinking
If you're undecided about practice areas, your number one consideration should be overall firm quality. JD is way ahead in that regard.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:44 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Jday is great at 1 through 3 and probably the worst at 4 (Jones day and night).
Anonymous User wrote: they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.
Yes, the reason being that it was easy to make a play on words. I think it is irresponsible to make blanket statements about a firm's "work-life balance" on TLS without any knowledge about the truth except for a funny moniker someone made up. This, combined with other people doing the same, makes things "conventional wisdom" on TLS.
There is no such thing as work-life balance in big law, especially in NYC. You will work hard everywhere. You will work days, nights, and weekends, everywhere. You will get emails during dinner with your family and you will have to step out - everywhere. There is an argument to be made that some firms are worse about this than others, but this largely depends on practice group, and even more so on the particular partner you work with.
I am not defending Jones Day, per se, I am just saying that it would be delusional to think Jones Day is worse than other law firms because someone thought it would be funny to call it Jones Day, Nights, and Weekends.
Stroock alum from above. I disagree. The way to get work life balance is to pick a niche like Tax/ERISA. You will work hard, but you can have a life.
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:24 am
by Anonymous User
Do you have a kramer offer? How long between cb and offer?
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:12 pm
by Hutz_and_Goodman
chickenalfredo wrote:Kramer Levin Out by Seven
also
K&L Gates Never Stay Late
Cravath Swain Moore Always Right Out The Door
Re: Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:26 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Do you have a kramer offer? How long between cb and offer?
Not OP, but CB 8/18 and offer today, so over a week.