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I'm leaning heavily towards Gibson, couple things give me pause. Here's my comparison thus far:

Gibson:

Better people all around IMO
Corp department if I decide I don't like lit
Not as sweatshoppy (?)

Quinn:

More trial focused (is this BS?)
More early responsibility (also BS?)

Just wondering if I am missing out on anything if I go with Gibson.

Just wondering if I am missing out on anything if I go with Gibson.

The ability to wear flip flops and plaid to work and be really proud of it, as you are whipped to death by your equally casually-dressed uncompromising overlords? Or maybe you'll have less opportunity to give bro-fist-bump speeches about how Quinn is the best ever and how you're all so badass you go on intense firm-sponsored hiking excursions?

But seriously, Quinn "may" give you earlier trial experience. However, I think the cost associated with that (see "misery") is not worth it. Also, Gibson's free market system will let you hop into corp if you realize you hate lit. Given that lots of people decide they hate lit, this is an extremely important option. Gibson is a much better firm to work for if you care about your sanity or happiness.

Go Gibson dude. You can always lateral if you want and Gibson will get you just about anywhere.

Doesn't Gibson regularly no-offer summers for grades? I would've been scared to go Gibson if they do that. OCI hasn't started, maybe your best bet is to wait it out for a full service, free market shop that is less likely to no offer you.

School? Offers from both?

outed for anon abuse

sap wrote:Doesn't Gibson regularly no-offer summers for grades? I would've been scared to go Gibson if they do that. OCI hasn't started, maybe your best bet is to wait it out for a full service, free market shop that is less likely to no offer you.

JFC this shit is why people should be banned for trolling. Stupid TLS memes become conventional 0L wisdom.

Nelson wrote:

sap wrote:Doesn't Gibson regularly no-offer summers for grades? I would've been scared to go Gibson if they do that. OCI hasn't started, maybe your best bet is to wait it out for a full service, free market shop that is less likely to no offer you.

JFC this shit is why people should be banned for trolling. Stupid TLS memes become conventional 0L wisdom.

Original OP - kept hearing this TLS rumor too, on NALP only 3/141 got no-offered, not that different from most other near-100% firms. So I don't think I'm that concerned about it.

Also yes I have offers at both, wouldn't be making this thread if I didn't.

Based on firm culture, Gibson SV was one of my top firms last year until I looked at their NALP page, and they had a no offer in their very small SV class. Just looked at the updated NALP page for that office for this year. Same thing. If there's a no offer in an office every year, that sounds like a trend, at least in their SV office. LA office has no NALP data, so I'd guess similar class size.

sap wrote:Doesn't Gibson regularly no-offer summers for grades? I would've been scared to go Gibson if they do that. OCI hasn't started, maybe your best bet is to wait it out for a full service, free market shop that is less likely to no offer you.

Former Gibson summer. This is total and complete bullshit. Hiring partner in one of the non-LA offices said they require the transcript, but only to ensure you didn't fail a class. Anecdotally (give it all the credence it deserves, which is very little), I had a huge grade drop during 2L (probably was bottom 20% during 2L) and happily received an offer along with the rest of my summer class in my office.

Gibson does no-offer every once in a while, and especially in the smaller offices, which is a valid concern. But it's not going to be because you got a B- in Admin.

Anonymous User wrote:

sap wrote:Doesn't Gibson regularly no-offer summers for grades? I would've been scared to go Gibson if they do that. OCI hasn't started, maybe your best bet is to wait it out for a full service, free market shop that is less likely to no offer you.

Former Gibson summer. This is total and complete bullshit. Hiring partner in one of the non-LA offices said they require the transcript, but only to ensure you didn't fail a class. Anecdotally (give it all the credence it deserves, which is very little), I had a huge grade drop during 2L (probably was bottom 20% during 2L) and happily received an offer along with the rest of my summer class in my office.

Gibson does no-offer every once in a while, and especially in the smaller offices, which is a valid concern. But it's not going to be because you got a B- in Admin.

Thank you. Can you perhaps say more about your experience at Gibson - personalities there, happiness of associates, etc? I realize its tough as a summer, but I'm guessing you work there now too? Always happy to get more perspectives.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

sap wrote:Doesn't Gibson regularly no-offer summers for grades? I would've been scared to go Gibson if they do that. OCI hasn't started, maybe your best bet is to wait it out for a full service, free market shop that is less likely to no offer you.

Former Gibson summer. This is total and complete bullshit. Hiring partner in one of the non-LA offices said they require the transcript, but only to ensure you didn't fail a class. Anecdotally (give it all the credence it deserves, which is very little), I had a huge grade drop during 2L (probably was bottom 20% during 2L) and happily received an offer along with the rest of my summer class in my office.

Gibson does no-offer every once in a while, and especially in the smaller offices, which is a valid concern. But it's not going to be because you got a B- in Admin.

Thank you. Can you perhaps say more about your experience at Gibson - personalities there, happiness of associates, etc? I realize its tough as a summer, but I'm guessing you work there now too? Always happy to get more perspectives.

(Gibson summer guy above)

I'm not currently at GDC. I'm currently clerking at a district court. I thought the associates seemed fairly happy (I was in a non-DC/LA office), but worked harder than associates had at the other firm at which I summered. A decent amount of doc review, but seemed to be good substantive work as well. The 3rd-5th years seemed pretty stressed, but I've found that's the case nearly everywhere. There were a few rough partners in our office, but mostly very good folks. I really enjoyed the firm and the people there.

Those are all platitudes, I know, but it's about what I can say having been a summer there.

I have an offer from Quinn and a screener at Gibson next week. Is Quinn really more sweatshop-y than Gibson? What is this based on? I definitely see that there are cultural differences, but I don't know that those really make a difference in the hours/amount of work.

Anonymous User wrote:I have an offer from Quinn and a screener at Gibson next week. Is Quinn really more sweatshop-y than Gibson? What is this based on? I definitely see that there are cultural differences, but I don't know that those really make a difference in the hours/amount of work.

Quinn NY summer here:

At least for the NY market, it's true that Quinn attorneys bill more hours than the average—how many more and the extent to which it ends up being far more hours spent working (and not just less downtime) is less clear.

That said, I have a friend who is a first year at PW whose hours have been far worse than even the Cravath attorneys I know.

Like all other things on TLS (and around the legal profession in general) it's a mix of truth and fiction. I get the impression that hours were worse when Apple v. Samsung was underway (and think that people who are on some of the high profile financial stuff still can get crushed) but I get the impression that even at Quinn a first year's hours are going to be closer to 2,000 than 3,000 (though some will bill 3k+).

Quinn isn't a lifestyle firm. I don't know that it's really worse than other firms that are known for being brutal in terms of hours.

Thanks for the response, Quinn NY anon. That is pretty much what I figured. I really liked the people I met at Quinn (LA), and there are only a few firms I am seriously considering over it. And all of those firms have similar tls horror stories lol.

Can't really speak to QE, but I summered at at GDC Cali office and really can't say enough about how positive an environment it is. The firm seems to actively screen for warmer and more outgoing personalities, and seems to be pretty careful to weed out abrasive characters. Although it was the summer and everyone was surely on their best behavior, I saw no reason to suspect that the environment could ever be hostile or cutthroat; all the summers, associates, and partners seemed genuinely friendly. It's about as good as you can get for Biglaw. No screamers, relatively few aspies, and not big on facetime requirements.

No-offer is not more of a concern than at any other near 100% firm. It really comes down to whether you fail a class (as stated above) or if you have serious work product issues during the summer. Personality issues seem less likely since, as stated above, the firm screens out the crazies. However, from stories I've heard, there is such a thing as being TOO social...

All good things aside, early trial experience seems to be unlikely to happen at GDC. It's a pretty standard biglaw firm in that aspect. I have no experience w/ Quinn, but I have to imagine you might be more substantive experience with regards to litigation earlier on.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm leaning heavily towards Gibson, couple things give me pause. Here's my comparison thus far:

Gibson:

Better people all around IMO
Corp department if I decide I don't like lit
Not as sweatshoppy (?)

Quinn:

More trial focused (is this BS?)
More early responsibility (also BS?)

Just wondering if I am missing out on anything if I go with Gibson.

Just out of curiosity. What school and when was your screener/callback? Seems very early for offers to be out from GDC LA

.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm leaning heavily towards Gibson, couple things give me pause. Here's my comparison thus far:

Gibson:

Better people all around IMO
Corp department if I decide I don't like lit
Not as sweatshoppy (?)

Quinn:

More trial focused (is this BS?)
More early responsibility (also BS?)

Just wondering if I am missing out on anything if I go with Gibson.

You must've been a 1L SA at gdc

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm leaning heavily towards Gibson, couple things give me pause. Here's my comparison thus far:

Gibson:

Better people all around IMO
Corp department if I decide I don't like lit
Not as sweatshoppy (?)

Quinn:

More trial focused (is this BS?)
More early responsibility (also BS?)

Just wondering if I am missing out on anything if I go with Gibson.

You must've been a 1L SA at gdc

OP here - Nope. Stop it guys. I'm not going to share for no reason. Sorry.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm leaning heavily towards Gibson, couple things give me pause. Here's my comparison thus far:

Gibson:

Better people all around IMO
Corp department if I decide I don't like lit
Not as sweatshoppy (?)

Quinn:

More trial focused (is this BS?)
More early responsibility (also BS?)

Just wondering if I am missing out on anything if I go with Gibson.

You must've been a 1L SA at gdc

See: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=233787

Offers are out literally everywhere. Pre-OCI offers are approaching the norm as opposed to being abnormal as in years passed. Nobody should be surprised anymore when they hear their friends have multiple offers before OCI has started.

a headhunter once told me gibson is one of the firms where it's important to keep up 2L-3L grades, but she didn't go as far as to tell me it no-offers any significant number of summers based on grades. if this were a career services office person i wouldn't even mention this since it would obviously be wrong, but since it was a professional headhunter i thought it might be worth bringing up. if nalp numbers say 100% that might be one thing, but maybe the firm cold offers.

Quinn will push you out sooner than Gibson, once you make it to being an actual associate. Quinn has higher leverage in most practice areas, especially IP.

Anonymous User wrote:Quinn will push you out sooner than Gibson, once you make it to being an actual associate. Quinn has higher leverage in most practice areas, especially IP.

are you a Quinn associate?

I don't know anything about Gibson's up and out, but at Quinn I thought most associates burn out way before they're pushed out, especially given that there's no set partner track/there are a number of seven-year plus associates and of counsel.

(pretty much I'm saying this is BS unless you know something that I don't)

Quinn has a "low hours" list that gets sent to John Quinn if you bill less than 200 hours a month. Just LOL at it not being worse than normal.

soj wrote:a headhunter once told me gibson is one of the firms where it's important to keep up 2L-3L grades, but she didn't go as far as to tell me it no-offers any significant number of summers based on grades. if this were a career services office person i wouldn't even mention this since it would obviously be wrong, but since it was a professional headhunter i thought it might be worth bringing up. if nalp numbers say 100% that might be one thing, but maybe the firm cold offers.

Has anyone heard of cold offers at Gibson. And how big of a grade drop are we talking?

Anonymous User wrote:

soj wrote:a headhunter once told me gibson is one of the firms where it's important to keep up 2L-3L grades, but she didn't go as far as to tell me it no-offers any significant number of summers based on grades. if this were a career services office person i wouldn't even mention this since it would obviously be wrong, but since it was a professional headhunter i thought it might be worth bringing up. if nalp numbers say 100% that might be one thing, but maybe the firm cold offers.

Has anyone heard of cold offers at Gibson. And how big of a grade drop are we talking?

Cold offers do not happen at Gibson. I am a Gibson associate and had a >.1 GPA drop. I still got an offer.