Job Prospects from Crap Law School Forum

[abcdee]

So my situation is something like this. I graduated from a crap law school in California, lets just say bottom tier non ABA approved, but did pass the bar. Before anyone jokes, yes I know I made the mistake of attending a crap school and not ABA. Sorry I'm not as academically gifted as many of you on here who attended HLS, YLS or the like, so I fall into the other 90% of law schools. If I knew what I know now, I would have done things a lot differently. With that being said, what are my chances of landing in a medium sized law firm at the least, since big law is ultimately out of the question? Would the weight of a Congressman (thru family connections) have any bearing on landing such a position or would they not be able to help at all? Even though I successfully passed the bar, I still feel like I made the huge mistake of attending a crap school and diminished any opportunity I may have had in obtaining a job in a big firm. I would have decided to forgo law school completely if I held the knowledge I hold today.

[Pikappraider]

how are your grades/rank? if they are good, you can land something solid. Two of my fellow SAs went to a bottom of TTTT law schools and it was a solid firm, large regional that paid a little below market. They were both in the top 10 people in their class though.

[abcdee]

I was notified that I was top 1/3 of my class, but the method my school uses is totally flawed. I know for a fact my grades were equal or better than most of my classmates since I was on Law Review (only invited those in top 15%) and my grades did not ever slip any semester. I was also heavily involved in organizations as I held various positions on the board for many of them.
My initial problem is finding any sort of attorney job after applying to over 50 firms. While I did not want to ask for help from the Congressman, I was just curious if that is a route I should consider since I'm not having any luck on my own. The honest truth is that even though I truly feel I'm just as qualified as many other applicants, having that darn crap school on my resume dissuades employers from even considering me.
Would you mind sharing how/what route your 2 friends took in obtaining those positions? I'm open to starting from the bottom and working my way up but I just need to find someone who will give me a chance. Thanks for the reply.

[mirage1287]

You say you passed the bar, does that mean you took it last June? Or this past Feb? If you took it last June and have been unemployed since, that's going to be a difficult hurdle to overcome. Above poster is right, if you have great grades that's a plus. But you graduated from a non-accredited school, I don't know why you're even limiting yourself to trying for mid law. You should search and apply to any legal job you can. The CA market is tough and you're competing against hundreds of other grads from accredited schools. Take anything you can get.

[XxSpyKEx]

You'll honestly be lucky if you're able to get a volunteer position at a PI organization. Even those can be very competitive for recent grads with less than stellar academic credentials. To put things into perspective, something like a 1/3 of my class at my t10 was uemployed at graduation, and I personally knew people with decent grades who were. (Granted this was in 2011, which was the worst year for legal hiring, but still...) You really just need to find anything that will allow you to develop the skills to practice as an attorney. Your focus shouldn't be on midlaw, but rather ANY legal organization that will take you, paid or unpaid (assuming it will allow you to develop legal skills---pretty much any PI organization def will).

[abcdee]

I should have clarified. My aspirations are to eventually work in a mid sized or if I'm lucky enough in a big law firm. Currently I have been looking and have applied to any and all law firms which have posted available positions, whether they be small or big law firms. Since I haven't seen a part of my question addressed, I'll ask again if anyone has any thoughts/advice on whether the weight of a Congressman would have any bearing on me potentially landing a job at a firm? I've also contemplated interning for this individual with the purpose being developing connections and networking to hopefully find my way into a firm.

@mirage1287 I passed the February 2014 bar. Have been looking on numerous sites for any entry level opening for attorneys. Unfortunately most of these positions state they require X amount of years of experience in those fields which I do not possess. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places but my main sites have been Indeed, TheLadders, and Craigslist. I'm just curious how those also looking for jobs land jobs since most openings require a requisite amount of experience in those fields which they could not have obtained during their time in school. Any suggestions?

@XxSpyKEx Do you mean public interest when you state PI organization? In my opinion I believe I have above average grades in comparison to others in my school, granted its not in comparison from real ABA schools, but as I have stated my school's system is flawed as the grading system isn't even on a GPA scale nor does it give letter grades. Regardless I've tried to fill up my resume with many other legal activities and have been on Law Review which I would assume look favorable to an employer. Do you have any suggestions as to where I could look into finding jobs where I could enhance my legal skills? My main objective at the moment is honestly just getting my foot in the door somewhere (paid or unpaid) and then working my way up from there, but the initial step is proving quite difficult.

Again I appreciate all the responses, you are all truly helpful.

[Pikappraider]

I was notified that I was top 1/3 of my class, but the method my school uses is totally flawed. I know for a fact my grades were equal or better than most of my classmates since I was on Law Review (only invited those in top 15%) and my grades did not ever slip any semester. I was also heavily involved in organizations as I held various positions on the board for many of them.
My initial problem is finding any sort of attorney job after applying to over 50 firms. While I did not want to ask for help from the Congressman, I was just curious if that is a route I should consider since I'm not having any luck on my own. The honest truth is that even though I truly feel I'm just as qualified as many other applicants, having that darn crap school on my resume dissuades employers from even considering me.
Would you mind sharing how/what route your 2 friends took in obtaining those positions? I'm open to starting from the bottom and working my way up but I just need to find someone who will give me a chance. Thanks for the reply.

They had really good grades, I think one of them got it through OCI and the other got it from mass mailing. 100% talk to your congressman friend, I am sure he knows a million lawyers. Especially coming from a lower ranked school, it is all about who you know as your school's name is not going to make your resume stand out next to the hundreds of other resumes these firms get every day.

Also, 50 apps is a small amount, don't get discouraged you have to keep hustling. I would also look at state court clerkships and some public interest stuff. Once you have something, you can start to be pickier. Just bomb everyone and everything that is hiring lawyers. good luck and while you are at a disadvantage about where you went to school, there are plenty of people from TTTT schools who hustle their way into jobs. List your gpa (if it is high) instead of top 1/3.

[should-i-do-it]

get you buddy in congress to get you a lobbying job

[NorCalLaw]

Apply to small firms in the Central Valley. Plaster "Law Review - Top 15% of Class" at the top of your resume. If your school graduates a small number of students but doesn't release ranking numbers, you may want to estimate your ranking and include that as well if it sounds impressive. Consider calling your school to ask if you can get your true ranking, etc. Call up any professors who liked you as well, especially any that have real law jobs. Ask for advice and ask them to let you know if they hear of openings.

[PepperJack]

You should make the subject of the email include your verified credentials - "law review, etc." This increases the odds your resume gets viewed in the first place. I'd avoid any statements you can't verify like top fifteen percent.

[mann124]

You say you passed the bar, does that mean you took it last June? Or this past Feb? If you took it last June and have been unemployed since, that's going to be a difficult hurdle to overcome.

why does it make a difference if OP took the bar in June or past Feb? Does he become more undesirable the longer he remains unemployed?

[XxSpyKEx]

I should have clarified. My aspirations are to eventually work in a mid sized or if I'm lucky enough in a big law firm. Currently I have been looking and have applied to any and all law firms which have posted available positions, whether they be small or big law firms. Since I haven't seen a part of my question addressed, I'll ask again if anyone has any thoughts/advice on whether the weight of a Congressman would have any bearing on me potentially landing a job at a firm? I've also contemplated interning for this individual with the purpose being developing connections and networking to hopefully find my way into a firm.

@mirage1287 I passed the February 2014 bar. Have been looking on numerous sites for any entry level opening for attorneys. Unfortunately most of these positions state they require X amount of years of experience in those fields which I do not possess. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places but my main sites have been Indeed, TheLadders, and Craigslist. I'm just curious how those also looking for jobs land jobs since most openings require a requisite amount of experience in those fields which they could not have obtained during their time in school. Any suggestions?

@XxSpyKEx Do you mean public interest when you state PI organization? In my opinion I believe I have above average grades in comparison to others in my school, granted its not in comparison from real ABA schools, but as I have stated my school's system is flawed as the grading system isn't even on a GPA scale nor does it give letter grades. Regardless I've tried to fill up my resume with many other legal activities and have been on Law Review which I would assume look favorable to an employer. Do you have any suggestions as to where I could look into finding jobs where I could enhance my legal skills? My main objective at the moment is honestly just getting my foot in the door somewhere (paid or unpaid) and then working my way up from there, but the initial step is proving quite difficult.

Again I appreciate all the responses, you are all truly helpful.

Yeah I meant public interest organizations. Just send your resume over to ever single public interest organization (including nonprofits) in your area asking for an unpaid internship, even if there isn't a position listed. Follow-up by calling those employers. If have any connections with people at those organizations (e.g. alumni from your law schools), network with them.

Also, when applying for paid jobs, don't limit yourself to posted positions. Those get 100s, if not 1000s, of applications from people who are way more qualified than you are. You really need to hustle by networking and try to get your foot into the door at employers where they might want to hire you when a position does open up.. One way of doing this, especially in CA, is volunteering at PI organizations (it seems like most PD and DA offices will take unpaid volunteers and frequently that leads to paid positions afterwards).

[XxSpyKEx]

You say you passed the bar, does that mean you took it last June? Or this past Feb? If you took it last June and have been unemployed since, that's going to be a difficult hurdle to overcome.

why does it make a difference if OP took the bar in June or past Feb? Does he become more undesirable the longer he remains unemployed?

Lol, obviously yes, employment gaps are bad, especially employment gaps of a year or more (at which point you pretty much become "unemployable"). Think of employers like women. When you're taken, a ton of employers are attracted to you. But when you're single, none of them want you.

[smallfirmassociate]

You might not be able to get a job at a firm, but that doesn't mean you can't get a JD-required job and work toward a firm job later. Apply for state district court clerkships, prosecutor jobs in rural counties, and entry-level JD-required (or JD-preferred) federal agency jobs. After about three years doing one of those, you might have better luck at a firm. Although, if you go fed agency, you might not have better luck at a firm.

[mi-chan17]

You might not be able to get a job at a firm, but that doesn't mean you can't get a JD-required job and work toward a firm job later. Apply for state district court clerkships, prosecutor jobs in rural counties, and entry-level JD-required (or JD-preferred) federal agency jobs. After about three years doing one of those, you might have better luck at a firm. Although, if you go fed agency, you might not have better luck at a firm.

OP doesn't qualify for federal JD-required jobs if the school s/he went to isn't ABA-accredited.

[smallfirmassociate]

You might not be able to get a job at a firm, but that doesn't mean you can't get a JD-required job and work toward a firm job later. Apply for state district court clerkships, prosecutor jobs in rural counties, and entry-level JD-required (or JD-preferred) federal agency jobs. After about three years doing one of those, you might have better luck at a firm. Although, if you go fed agency, you might not have better luck at a firm.

OP doesn't qualify for federal JD-required jobs if the school s/he went to isn't ABA-accredited.

Ah, damn, nice catch / that sucks. But he could still apply to JD-preferred jobs, I suppose, and the non-accredited JD might help him a little there.

[abcdee]

You might not be able to get a job at a firm, but that doesn't mean you can't get a JD-required job and work toward a firm job later. Apply for state district court clerkships, prosecutor jobs in rural counties, and entry-level JD-required (or JD-preferred) federal agency jobs. After about three years doing one of those, you might have better luck at a firm. Although, if you go fed agency, you might not have better luck at a firm.

Thanks for the insight. Would you happen to have the site where I can apply to these clerkships? I've actually been interested in clerking for a judge as it boosts my resume tremendously and is highly regarded by employers. Would you also happen to know how difficult it would be to obtain this position with California state judges and how competitive these positions are? I know I stand no chance for positions at the federal level judges within the state.
Also what do you mean by not having better luck if I go federal agency?
Thanks again.

[FlanAl]

go work for the congress person's office in your district. start making connections within your district via the congress person. Then hope that by networking while having the congress person's weight and influence behind you you are able to land a job.

[smallfirmassociate]

You might not be able to get a job at a firm, but that doesn't mean you can't get a JD-required job and work toward a firm job later. Apply for state district court clerkships, prosecutor jobs in rural counties, and entry-level JD-required (or JD-preferred) federal agency jobs. After about three years doing one of those, you might have better luck at a firm. Although, if you go fed agency, you might not have better luck at a firm.

Thanks for the insight. Would you happen to have the site where I can apply to these clerkships? I've actually been interested in clerking for a judge as it boosts my resume tremendously and is highly regarded by employers. Would you also happen to know how difficult it would be to obtain this position with California state judges and how competitive these positions are? I know I stand no chance for positions at the federal level judges within the state.
Also what do you mean by not having better luck if I go federal agency?
Thanks again.

Start by finding county government websites for counties in your area and searching for job postings on their sites to find assistant county atty / prosecutor jobs. If there are state district court website(s), you might find judicial clerkships there, or else somewhere on the state's website.

As for federal work, I just mean that it might not be a great way to transition to a law firm job. A firm would prefer you have experience as a judicial clerk or prosecutor over federal agency work, barring some kind of rare synergistic practice area.

[XxSpyKEx]

A firm would prefer you have experience as a judicial clerk or prosecutor over federal agency work, barring some kind of rare synergistic practice area.

Depends on what you mean by "federal agency work." If you mean practicing law at a federal governmental agency, a lot of those do have exit options into firms (it's not "rare" to have synergistic practice areas). For example, if you work as an AUSA doing white collar, that can lead to practicing white collar at a firm. If you work for the SEC/FINRA, that can lead to doing securities work at a firm. If you work for the EPA, that can lead to doing environmental work at a firm. The list just goes one. It all depends on what you're doing and how it lines up with practice areas at a firm.. Even at the state or local levels, there is a lot of agencies doing work that won't translate to a firm (just like with some federal governmental agencies). The main reason I think OP would be better off focusing his search to state and local levels is because he simply isn't going to be competitive for legal jobs at the federal government. With that said, there are definitely federal governmental organizations that take volunteer attorneys, so I can't think of a good reason for him to not apply for those volunteer positions.

OP, with respect to the local trial court clerkships, it seems like the best thing you can do is to look up information about the judges and send all of them your resume, cover letter, etc. With federal clerkships, you have OSCAR, and with state supreme courts (and even a lot of intermediate courts), information is online at some school's bank thing. But there isn't the equivalent for local trial court clerkships (it depends on the location, some judges will post openings, but a lot won't). Just apply to all the judges you'd be interested in working for, because you really have no way of knowing when/if the judge will be hiring. I think on the state level, it's a lot more common to have career clerks, so that's another consideration.

[DELG]

Move to DC, get a job on the Hill, see where it takes you.

[smallfirmassociate]

A firm would prefer you have experience as a judicial clerk or prosecutor over federal agency work, barring some kind of rare synergistic practice area.

Depends on what you mean by "federal agency work." If you mean practicing law at a federal governmental agency, a lot of those do have exit options into firms (it's not "rare" to have synergistic practice areas). For example, if you work as an AUSA doing white collar, that can lead to practicing white collar at a firm. If you work for the SEC/FINRA, that can lead to doing securities work at a firm. If you work for the EPA, that can lead to doing environmental work at a firm. The list just goes one. It all depends on what you're doing and how it lines up with practice areas at a firm.. Even at the state or local levels, there is a lot of agencies doing work that won't translate to a firm (just like with some federal governmental agencies). The main reason I think OP would be better off focusing his search to state and local levels is because he simply isn't going to be competitive for legal jobs at the federal government. With that said, there are definitely federal governmental organizations that take volunteer attorneys, so I can't think of a good reason for him to not apply for those volunteer positions.

OP, with respect to the local trial court clerkships, it seems like the best thing you can do is to look up information about the judges and send all of them your resume, cover letter, etc. With federal clerkships, you have OSCAR, and with state supreme courts (and even a lot of intermediate courts), information is online at some school's bank thing. But there isn't the equivalent for local trial court clerkships (it depends on the location, some judges will post openings, but a lot won't). Just apply to all the judges you'd be interested in working for, because you really have no way of knowing when/if the judge will be hiring. I think on the state level, it's a lot more common to have career clerks, so that's another consideration.

We've already covered in this thread that OP isn't a realistic candidate for USAO jobs or Honors program, the type of stuff that generally feeds to firms. We've also covered that he isn't eligible for JD-required fed jobs. So out of JD-preferred fed jobs that s/he could get, few are likely to turn into fed jobs. To clarify, I didn't mean my statement to be a blanket statement, but one applied to the context of this thread. There are plenty of more prestigious federal jobs that feed into firm jobs just fine. But when I refer to "agency" jobs, I'm talking mostly regulatory, labor-related, in-house type of jobs, so think USDA as opposed to DoJ. E.g. he could maybe / realistically, with enough diligence, get a job investigating internal labor complaints by agency workers in a JD-preferred position, but that's unlikely to end up being appealing to very many firms.

[hiima3L]

You might not be able to get a job at a firm, but that doesn't mean you can't get a JD-required job and work toward a firm job later. Apply for state district court clerkships, prosecutor jobs in rural counties, and entry-level JD-required (or JD-preferred) federal agency jobs. After about three years doing one of those, you might have better luck at a firm. Although, if you go fed agency, you might not have better luck at a firm.

Thanks for the insight. Would you happen to have the site where I can apply to these clerkships? I've actually been interested in clerking for a judge as it boosts my resume tremendously and is highly regarded by employers. Would you also happen to know how difficult it would be to obtain this position with California state judges and how competitive these positions are? I know I stand no chance for positions at the federal level judges within the state.
Also what do you mean by not having better luck if I go federal agency?
Thanks again.

Based on your posts, I think you went to a non-ABA-accredited school in CA and failed the bar last July, right? If so, you need some perspective because you sound woefully uninformed.

You are at the bottom of the barrel of applicants in one of the most horrible legal markets in the country. From a school like the one you went to, you have to be in the very tippy top of the class to have any shot at decent employment barring connections. Throwing your resume around blindly is not going to turn into anything. I guarantee it.

You are only going to get a job by proving yourself. This is going to require people getting to know you and your work product. At this point, you need to start volunteering, if that's what it's going to take to get some kind of legal work. Go volunteer for a firm, or a judge, or anything where you'll get meaningful work. Start meeting every possible attorney you can.

You're not going to get any kind of clerkship barring luck, i.e., working for a judge and a spot magically opens up and you are the perfect fit. This is not out of the realm of possibilities (I know someone from a non-ABA school who got a clerkship this way), but do not bank on it by any means. In general, the more rural you go, the better your chances are. There are ADA/PD/County Counsel jobs in the middle-of-nowhere Sierras counties that might be worth looking into. There might even be some CA judges/courts out there that may be hiring...some day.

If I were you, I'd go work for the Congressman. You have very, very limited options when it comes to practicing law at this point.

[wert3813]

Did you fail the bar in June? Not dogging you but employers are gonna ask. Also as I read your initial post it wasn't so much having the congressman make some calls for you so much as having the congressman like write you a letter of recommendation that you can tag to your applications. If it's the second and not the first I doubt that will do much.

[Anonymous User]

Did you fail the bar in June? Not dogging you but employers are gonna ask. Also as I read your initial post it wasn't so much having the congressman make some calls for you so much as having the congressman like write you a letter of recommendation that you can tag to your applications. If it's the second and not the first I doubt that will do much.

What is the generic response for a failed bar exam anyway?