Quit biglaw with no backup? Forum

[wildhaggis]

I did this. Junior associate, V50ish, major market. Significant other (non lawyer) had dream job which involved working from home half the time and then either traveling or commuting to an office in another state for one or two weeks a month. People in the firm knew that I wasn't happy. Insomnia, one or two panic attacks (not at work, thankfully), started to get indigestion -- it wasn't sustainable. Practice chair called me to talk about projects for the next 12 months and I told him that I was going to leave. He was nice about it and gave me 3 months to finish my open matters/job search from my office. In retrospect, I think that they were looking to make cuts and while I'm not sure that they would have cut me, I think that resigning saved me or someone else from being fired.

I moved to a secondary market with a lukewarm economy where SO's job was based. I was unemployed for 4 months. Collected a fee for a simple deal for a family member and a couple of non law side jobs. Mostly, I met with every lawyer in town who would give me a meeting, worked out every day, and tried to figure out what I wanted to do. I also sent my resume to every state judge within a 1 hour commute asking for a clerkship on the chance that their clerk was going on maternity leave or something. I also strongly considered hanging my own shingle and applied for some long shot jobs. Mostly, I identified the organization that I wanted to work for and waited around for the right job opening. I actually got the interview with my current job weeks after I initially applied because they interviewed 5 or 6 people who all had a specific qualification that I lacked but who apparently sucked in the interview.

I ended up with a management job in a state agency which is on the cusp of JD required/JD advantage (i.e. need knowledge of the law, technically don't need bar passage, but everyone else in organization who does this job is also a lawyer so I don't see how you would be a competitive candidate without a JD). I got the job because of pre-law school work experience that I spun as related, a good interview after they were frustrated with crappy interviews from other candidates, and two references from inside the organization which proved that I could get along with people there. I developed those references by spending 3 months doing 15-20 informational interviews with lawyers, businesspeople and nonprofit folks (I was unemployed for 4 months. I spent the 1st month on moving and related tasks and then basically 2.5-3 months job searching at various intensity). I sealed the deal when a non-profit acquaintance who gave me an informational interview got one of her board members (who I had not met) to email my boss on the afternoon of my interview. That guy worked in the organization, knew my boss, and the email basically said "I don't know this kid, but I heard good things from people I trust and I can vouch for their background." The non-profit person prevailed upon this guy because she liked me -- I didn't ask her to do that. It's not about volume of resumes, it's really about a specifically targeted resume and developing references.

I took a $100k pay cut the first year (but by moving SO got more money and better potential for future earnings -- not biglaw money but we get by totally fine.). After 12 months, I was in the right place at the right time to negotiate for a 20% raise which helps. Married filing separately for IBR and waiting for PSLF. I wouldn't say that I'm in my dream job because I didn't conceive that I would have this job at any point before I applied, but my SO thinks that it's a perfect match for my skills and personality and that it should be my dream job.

Thoughts:

"I'm moving to town following my SO" is a good story. It reads like "I'm a smart, capable attorney who is trying to put down roots and won't leave for greener pastures in 5 minutes." Also, your interviewer isn't supposed to ask about your family situation, so volunteer that info.

Down payment for a house in a secondary market is nice with savings from a biglaw salary. Mortgage brokers don't know anything about how IBR/PAYE or student loans work in general, though, so be prepared to educate them.

Don't disparage your old firm. Just shrug and say, "I don't have anything bad to say about them, it just turns out that law firm life (or XXX practice group) wasn't for me." Everyone who matters will know what that means.

Contact the state bar section chair for your practice area to get an overview of the players in your new market. Law school career office was surprisingly helpful (which is to say, I expected zero and they were better than zero. So not much, but a little helpful.) Not going to lie, T20 law school and V50 firm are helpful to open doors.

And, for other people reading this with the idea of planning for the future: it's tough to lateral as a junior associate (< 3-4 years out). You really need to have a marketable skill that you can handle with minimal supervision (i.e. managing a data room; handling a permit application; deposition experience; interfacing with particular types of experts) or the practice group you want has so much business that they are desperate for bodies. It would have been easier for me if I had the opportunity to develop a focus while I was at the firm instead of being a practice group generalist. What you have going for you as a junior associate are: work ethic, strong writing/editing/proofreading skills, attention to detail, and problem-solving in a logical framework.






I don't actively hate any of my coworkers in my new job and I can actually see myself advancing in this position whereas I never saw myself as a biglaw partner.

Interested in this - do you mind PMing me?

[Anonymous User]

(not the OP) - I've got all of my preparations in place to do this. I am... very prepared to quit unprepared? Planning to pull the ripcord by the end of this month.

Life's too short.

[Anonymous User]

(not the OP) - I've got all of my preparations in place to do this. I am... very prepared to quit unprepared? Planning to pull the ripcord by the end of this month.

Life's too short.

(Different associate here)
What pushed you over the edge? Practice area/year? Loan status?

[Anonymous User]

(not the OP) - I've got all of my preparations in place to do this. I am... very prepared to quit unprepared? Planning to pull the ripcord by the end of this month.

Life's too short.

(Different associate here)
What pushed you over the edge? Practice area/year? Loan status?

It's been a slow boil - I don't want to storm out because of one bad day, so I've made sure to keep a running list of the things that make me seethe. It is a long list.

I have a positive net worth, but can't just retire on dividends or anything. I'm a midlevel corporate associate.

Thoroughly enjoying fantasies about life on the outside - being able to make plans, pursue real hobbies/interests outside of the law, becoming free from the all-consuming prison of anxiety that the firm and the phone become...

[mvp99]

OP try planning a month long trip around europe o south america. even if you dont do it, its been shown to increase your morale

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

OP - what did you end up doing?

[kaysta]

Let's all resign together on three.

literal lol'ing in empty train station like a maniac
sorry to resurrect

[Poets]

1. Hire a headhunter. They will find a job for you. My friend started to get many calls from 2 or 3rd year.

2. If you want to change a career, get into a program first.

You will lose bargaining power in negotiating salary once you quit.

But even if you quit first, I believe things will pan out eventually anyway as long as you have sth to bring to the table.

[Anonymous User]

You know what, a bunch of 0Ls and summer associates are going to say you are crazy. But I am a third year and think you should quit. I nearly quit a year ago and continued to stay on. Things only got worse. Every year you become psychologically more risk averse and it becomes a little bit more difficult to leave as you become increasingly less marketable in other fields.

Go and don't look back. I understand it can be hard, everyone looks at you like you are on top of the world because of the salary, but those people don't have to live through the failed relationships, cancelled vacations and general insomnia and lack of sleep, not too mention the ungrateful clients and supervisors who treat you like a piece of capital and the general feeling of loneliness and not feeling alive anymore.

You work in biglaw, so despite the way you have been berated and made to feel like an idiot the past 2 years (this is the firm's best way of retaining associates), you should remember that as a biglaw associate you are smarter and more capable than 99% of the US population. Quitting biglaw will not land you underneath a bridge, businesses can always use another talented person. You will bounce back, good luck.

Sorry to resurrect this thread but curious as to what any others have done in this regard. Currently a 4th/5th/6th-year associate in a CA biglaw market wondering how crazy it would be to quit the practice of law with approx. $200K in savings and no debt.

[abiglawyer]

Love it when people revive my favorite old threads. Bring back the biglaw hate buffet next!

If you're a mid-level, why not try to find something else before quitting? You've made it pretty far, why the sudden change? Don't like any of your exit options?

[Anonymous User]

You work in biglaw, so despite the way you have been berated and made to feel like an idiot the past 2 years (this is the firm's best way of retaining associates), you should remember that as a biglaw associate you are smarter and more capable than 99% of the US population. Quitting biglaw will not land you underneath a bridge, businesses can always use another talented person. You will bounce back, good luck.

As a junior with no debt who fantasizes daily about quitting, this is really comforting. I just hope it's true.

I've realized that no amount of money is worth the bullshit. If they offered to make me equity partner tomorrow, I'd probably tell them no thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Love it when people revive my favorite old threads. Bring back the biglaw hate buffet next!

If you're a mid-level, why not try to find something else before quitting? You've made it pretty far, why the sudden change? Don't like any of your exit options?

All valid points; I'm in a weird place where I'm entering my 30s, significant other has a stable job she likes with decent income and I'm questioning whether I want to continue in the legal profession. I've enjoyed the experiences that I've had, but I want a career that's more enterprising, more fulfilling and am ok with significantly lower pay. Rough plan would be to take a month or two off to travel in a low COL destination. Then, join alumni groups and vocational/hobby groups I'm interested in to explore different career paths I would be interested in. If all else fails, or during this time, I could also pay some of my expenses through task economy, blogging about my career switch search after leaving biglaw (trite I know, but could be helpful), trying to help my cousin on his side content creation and small business website business or helping with part-time contract legal work if there's a tie-in based on my transactional experience. Based on the research I've done on career switches, it ultimately points to networking, shadowing and trying out different careers that you *may* be interested and ruling them out. I have a few in mind.

On the realistic end--as I'm a lawyer and risk-averse/deficit focused--I am also interviewing with an in-house position with final round in the next week. This could obviously be a good, safe way to leave biglaw and give in-house a shot before a dramatic switch. At the same time, my spouse and I are planning to have kids in the next 2 years, so now is probably the best time to try a crazy career switch strategy (and the longer I wait the less likely I'll do something like that and the harder it'll be to improve my base of earning in a new career).

You work in biglaw, so despite the way you have been berated and made to feel like an idiot the past 2 years (this is the firm's best way of retaining associates), you should remember that as a biglaw associate you are smarter and more capable than 99% of the US population. Quitting biglaw will not land you underneath a bridge, businesses can always use another talented person. You will bounce back, good luck.

As a junior with no debt who fantasizes daily about quitting, this is really comforting. I just hope it's true.

I've realized that no amount of money is worth the bullshit. If they offered to make me equity partner tomorrow, I'd probably tell them no thanks.

Isn't that a nice idea? Hope the same

[Anonymous User]

You know what, a bunch of 0Ls and summer associates are going to say you are crazy. But I am a third year and think you should quit. I nearly quit a year ago and continued to stay on. Things only got worse. Every year you become psychologically more risk averse and it becomes a little bit more difficult to leave as you become increasingly less marketable in other fields.

Go and don't look back. I understand it can be hard, everyone looks at you like you are on top of the world because of the salary, but those people don't have to live through the failed relationships, cancelled vacations and general insomnia and lack of sleep, not too mention the ungrateful clients and supervisors who treat you like a piece of capital and the general feeling of loneliness and not feeling alive anymore.

You work in biglaw, so despite the way you have been berated and made to feel like an idiot the past 2 years (this is the firm's best way of retaining associates), you should remember that as a biglaw associate you are smarter and more capable than 99% of the US population. Quitting biglaw will not land you underneath a bridge, businesses can always use another talented person. You will bounce back, good luck.

Sorry to resurrect this thread but curious as to what any others have done in this regard. Currently a 4th/5th/6th-year associate in a CA biglaw market wondering how crazy it would be to quit the practice of law with approx. $200K in savings and no debt.

I literally just did this - am about to leave on an around the world trip after quitting as a midlevel. It’s an awesome feeling. I know others who’ve done it too.

Check out the podcast Lessons From a Quitter - it’s by a Berkeley law grad who interviews other people who took the plunge.

[abiglawyer]

If you have enough family money to quit and "travel the world," then yeah, go ahead. Not sure why you felt the need to ask.

[waytoplant]

I literally just did this - am about to leave on an around the world trip after quitting as a midlevel. It’s an awesome feeling. I know others who’ve done it too.

Check out the podcast Lessons From a Quitter - it’s by a Berkeley law grad who interviews other people who took the plunge.

"Happy Lawyer Project" is another great podcast/series. It's not explicitly about quitting but she does have guests on who have quit without a plan.

[Anonymous User]

Sixth year. Never thought I'd make it this far. I have a good reputation and a lot of responsibility. It sucks. I think constantly about bailing, but the money is so good that I feel like I'd regret it forever if it turns out that I'm going to hate any job I'd have.

Every day I perform mental gymnastics trying to make lasting until my next bonus more plausible. "April is basically almost summer, and there's always a summer slow down, and then you get to the fall, and then once it's fall it starts to be the holidays, and then once it's the holidays it's basically January."

It's working a little bit - I've felt this way since August mostly and I'm still standing. But damn, another 8 months seems like a long time.

[Anonymous User]

Sixth year. Never thought I'd make it this far. I have a good reputation and a lot of responsibility. It sucks. I think constantly about bailing, but the money is so good that I feel like I'd regret it forever if it turns out that I'm going to hate any job I'd have.

Every day I perform mental gymnastics trying to make lasting until my next bonus more plausible. "April is basically almost summer, and there's always a summer slow down, and then you get to the fall, and then once it's fall it starts to be the holidays, and then once it's the holidays it's basically January."

It's working a little bit - I've felt this way since August mostly and I'm still standing. But damn, another 8 months seems like a long time.

Same, but a 7th year. I never expected to last more than the 3 or 4 years it would take to pay off my student loans. I'm definitely not getting a bonus this year, although my firm doesn't do market bonuses anyway, but it's like...each year that I can get that base Cravath scale pay is one or two or even three less years working at another crummy legal job that I'll probably hate just as much as this one (only get paid less to do). At this point, I may as well stick it out until the partners decide to get rid of me, which will at least save me from having to have awkward conversations about why I'm quitting. Anyway, I'm rooting for you, Sixth Year.

[Anonymous User]

Above anons, did you guys lateral during your big law tenure? I'm already doing mental gymnastics and I'm a 2nd year. Counting down the rest of this year to get a bonus and/or lateral to another firm near the end of the year if my hours look too low to secure the bonus (may be able to get new firm to pay bonus as a sign-on, especially if I don't use a recruiter).

[Anonymous User]

fifth year here in a similar financial situation as the posters above, albeit with a small amount of debt (~25k) left to pay off. Life sucks on a day-to-day basis knowing that any "good" work I do is for the devil, though the responsibility and autonomy can be rewarding at times. It would be great if I could transition to something else more personally meaningful - whatever the fuck that is - but it's hard to justify considering the $ and the uncertainty as to the next step. God damn the golden handcuffs.

[Anonymous User]

Above anons, did you guys lateral during your big law tenure? I'm already doing mental gymnastics and I'm a 2nd year. Counting down the rest of this year to get a bonus and/or lateral to another firm near the end of the year if my hours look too low to secure the bonus (may be able to get new firm to pay bonus as a sign-on, especially if I don't use a recruiter).

7th year anon - yes, I lateraled at the end of 4th year. I had about a month off between jobs, and it was amazing - before leaving big law forever, I always recommend people lateral to at least one other big law firm just for the vacation/ramp up/ramp down period. Moving jobs buys you at least a year before you get fired, so if you're burned out and ready to throw in the towel, switch firms first and see if that helps give you some of your mojo back. This really only works if you're been with your firm for a while, or it's your first move - not if you just lateraled last year and are trying to do it again and again to have a month of vacation every year or whatever.

[Anonymous User]

Above anons, did you guys lateral during your big law tenure? I'm already doing mental gymnastics and I'm a 2nd year. Counting down the rest of this year to get a bonus and/or lateral to another firm near the end of the year if my hours look too low to secure the bonus (may be able to get new firm to pay bonus as a sign-on, especially if I don't use a recruiter).

7th year anon - yes, I lateraled at the end of 4th year. I had about a month off between jobs, and it was amazing - before leaving big law forever, I always recommend people lateral to at least one other big law firm just for the vacation/ramp up/ramp down period. Moving jobs buys you at least a year before you get fired, so if you're burned out and ready to throw in the towel, switch firms first and see if that helps give you some of your mojo back. This really only works if you're been with your firm for a while, or it's your first move - not if you just lateraled last year and are trying to do it again and again to have a month of vacation every year or whatever.

The market's pretty hot right now, so you can probably get away with 2 lateral moves before you throw in the towel (with the caveat that it's probably much harder to lateral once you're in the senior associate years).