NYU Tax LLM - Tell Me to Go or Not To Go Forum

[UndecidedMN]

Hello, I have to make a decision to attend NYU for full-time tax LLM tomorrow. I honestly have no clue what to do. Be as brutally honest as you want.

Graduated Top 1/3rd at University of Minnesota, Magna Cum Laude. Transferred late into the U so lost OCI or law review chance. I focused heavily on business and tax, was director of the tax clinic for two years. I would like to go litigation. I have a wife and kids (three including one autistic) so financial stress is really important. Only debt I have is from law school and undergrad(no credit cards or car loans) of about 100K. I do not have a job yet but I have been applying everywhere. Unfornately everywhere I have applied for jobs with a tax focus wants either 1 year minimum experience or a tax llm. NYU's tax llm is the best in the country. So if I attend, I most likely will be leaving my wife and kids here for 9 mos while I stay with a brother in NY. As much as that sucks, I would basically fly back once a month and use facetime alot. We can make it barely with a little savings, wife work, and parental help with the kids but it will be tough and stringent. However I will have to borrow everything this time, including living expenses around 85 - 90K. This is insane. However I have no idea what to do at this point. The NYU LLM is the gold standard, but is it worth it. The employment statistics are very good. 90% employed within 9 mos, 65% at time of graduation. All of my Tax and business classes were As.

What would you do? Go to NYU or just keep applying for jobs everyday.

P.S. Also applying to the LLM would allow me to go for DOJ Honors in tax which is a dream job for me if I ever got it.

[TheThriller]

You want litigation but you're background is tax and you want to get a tax LLM?

[UndecidedMN]

Yes, I have tried to apply to the IRS as an attorney and was denied for lack of experience or LLM. If I get the LLM, I may also apply for DOJ Honors for tax.

[TheThriller]

DOJ Honors are hyper competitive and students at t14s in the top 1/3rd miss out on the opportunity. Why would another 90K in debt be a panacea?

[BlazedBillyMaze]

You will have to excuse my rambling as I have been bar prepping all day. I had a similar dilemma. I really like tax. I am really good at it. However, I made my law school choice to minimize debt. I am not entirely convinced that a tax LLM is worth the extra debt, especially right out of law school. I have a friend who went to Georgetown from a pretty low ranking school and snagged a job with a Big 4 Accounting firm without an accounting degree. I have also heard that those jobs are becoming harder to get even with an LLM. Lastly, if you are wanting to litigate, I am not convinced that a tax LLM will bring about the intended result. Most LLM programs have one or two classes on tax procedure. If you have already done tax clinic (not VITA), and represented folks in OICs, settlements, and actual litigation, paying ~$60k largely for a class in tax procedure seems a little redundant.

Advice is free on this website, so take mine with a grain of salt. Given your situation, I would try and get a state clerkship anywhere convenient. Family is important. Most state clerkships are chill. Take the classes online to qualify for the CPA exam and actually pass the CPA exam during your clerkship. With a JD, it does not really matter what state you are licensed in, so you can shop which state to take the CPA exam in based on your circumstances and what state has the least restrictions that are applicable to you. After that, try most tax-oriented options again after the clerkship. I have heard that the CPA can be almost as important as the LLM. Head over to taxtalent to get a better idea.

[JCougar]

No practicing lawyer I have ever talked to (and I've talked to hundreds, if not thousands) has ever said that getting an LLM is a good idea. Most of them laugh at you for even asking the question.

The only place I could ever see a benefit is for a FedGov job, as they will start you out at a higher pay grade sometimes with a LLM. But like one poster already said, tax litigation with FedGov is insanely competitive, and with Minnesota as your undergrad, you don't stand a good chance of getting it. Chances are you're throwing good money after bad. Although if you absolutely HAVE to get an LLM, NYU does have an ok program in tax.

[Anonymous User]

No practicing lawyer I have ever talked to (and I've talked to hundreds, if not thousands) has ever said that getting an LLM is a good idea. Most of them laugh at you for even asking the question.

The only place I could ever see a benefit is for a FedGov job, as they will start you out at a higher pay grade sometimes with a LLM. But like one poster already said, tax litigation with FedGov is insanely competitive, and with Minnesota as your undergrad, you don't stand a good chance of getting it. Chances are you're throwing good money after bad. Although if you absolutely HAVE to get an LLM, NYU does have an ok program in tax.

I heard the contrary but from a very small sample of partners... they do care for the LLM for tax but I got the feeling is simply because they can ask for it... if there are many tax LLM grads for a few tax job openings, not having the LLM is pretty much a guarantee you won't get an offer. Is also about marketing... firms like to tell their clients all tax attorneys are either CPAs or LLMs..