Inland California (Sacramento, Fresno, IE, etc.) OCI thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Almost nobody is likely to be interested, but every year I post a thread offering to answer questions about this market.

(Source: Am lawyer here.) For the 1 or 2 of you applying here, I am a good resource.

TLDR: Have ties.

[Anonymous User]

How close do my ties have to be? If I've lived in CA my whole life, lived in Santa Rosa/Rohnert Park/Windsor for 8 years, and then went to college at a state school in the bay area...is that enough? Or do my ties have to be to Sac/Fresno/etc. specifically?

[Anonymous User]

How close do my ties have to be? If I've lived in CA my whole life, lived in Santa Rosa/Rohnert Park/Windsor for 8 years, and then went to college at a state school in the bay area...is that enough? Or do my ties have to be to Sac/Fresno/etc. specifically?

OP here: This really depends. Are you going to Davis or McGeorge? If so, then you might be good on ties for Sac, but for Fresno you're going to need to step it up a notch. Fresno firms are *incredibly* suspicious of outsiders, because during the recession a lot of associates went down there and then bolted for SF/LA.

Basically I think if you can articulate *why* you want to work there, you'll be OK, but ties definitely help you get an interview. I mentioned growing up in Sac in my cover letter and got interviews with every Sac firm at OCI (Downey, BBK, etc.) despite middling grades.

I think Santa Rosa won't cut it though people will see that as Bay Area.

[Anonymous User]

How close do my ties have to be? If I've lived in CA my whole life, lived in Santa Rosa/Rohnert Park/Windsor for 8 years, and then went to college at a state school in the bay area...is that enough? Or do my ties have to be to Sac/Fresno/etc. specifically?

OP here: This really depends. Are you going to Davis or McGeorge? If so, then you might be good on ties for Sac, but for Fresno you're going to need to step it up a notch. Fresno firms are *incredibly* suspicious of outsiders, because during the recession a lot of associates went down there and then bolted for SF/LA.

Basically I think if you can articulate *why* you want to work there, you'll be OK, but ties definitely help you get an interview. I mentioned growing up in Sac in my cover letter and got interviews with every Sac firm at OCI (Downey, BBK, etc.) despite middling grades.

I think Santa Rosa won't cut it though people will see that as Bay Area.

I grew up in Sac but go to school in the Midwest. Any tips on mass mailing?

[Anonymous User]

How close do my ties have to be? If I've lived in CA my whole life, lived in Santa Rosa/Rohnert Park/Windsor for 8 years, and then went to college at a state school in the bay area...is that enough? Or do my ties have to be to Sac/Fresno/etc. specifically?

OP here: This really depends. Are you going to Davis or McGeorge? If so, then you might be good on ties for Sac, but for Fresno you're going to need to step it up a notch. Fresno firms are *incredibly* suspicious of outsiders, because during the recession a lot of associates went down there and then bolted for SF/LA.

Basically I think if you can articulate *why* you want to work there, you'll be OK, but ties definitely help you get an interview. I mentioned growing up in Sac in my cover letter and got interviews with every Sac firm at OCI (Downey, BBK, etc.) despite middling grades.

I think Santa Rosa won't cut it though people will see that as Bay Area.

I grew up in Sac but go to school in the Midwest. Any tips on mass mailing?

Apart from "you should do it," I'll need to know the range of your school and your grades before I can offer better advice. Also do you have any inkling of what you want to do (lit/etc.)?

[fruitlobber]

How miserable is it to live in the armpit of California?

[Anonymous User]

How close do my ties have to be? If I've lived in CA my whole life, lived in Santa Rosa/Rohnert Park/Windsor for 8 years, and then went to college at a state school in the bay area...is that enough? Or do my ties have to be to Sac/Fresno/etc. specifically?

OP here: This really depends. Are you going to Davis or McGeorge? If so, then you might be good on ties for Sac, but for Fresno you're going to need to step it up a notch. Fresno firms are *incredibly* suspicious of outsiders, because during the recession a lot of associates went down there and then bolted for SF/LA.

Basically I think if you can articulate *why* you want to work there, you'll be OK, but ties definitely help you get an interview. I mentioned growing up in Sac in my cover letter and got interviews with every Sac firm at OCI (Downey, BBK, etc.) despite middling grades.

I think Santa Rosa won't cut it though people will see that as Bay Area.

I grew up in Sac but go to school in the Midwest. Any tips on mass mailing?

Apart from "you should do it," I'll need to know the range of your school and your grades before I can offer better advice. Also do you have any inkling of what you want to do (lit/etc.)?

I'm at a decent non-t 14 in the Midwest, think UMN, ND, Wustl, ect. Top 1/3. Preference is transactional but I'm flexible. Also, I was planning on starting to mail to Sacramento next week. If you have any suggestions, even firms I have a shot at, I would appreciate it.

[Anonymous User]

How miserable is it to live in the armpit of California?

I clerk(ed) in the Eastern District of California. I'm not a Sacramento native and I like it a lot. Can't speak about Fresno, Modesto, Stockton, etc.

"Have ties" seems like great advice. Don't know much about transactional work in the area but there are plenty of good litigation shops, although some of the best ones have been tiny boutiques that don't regularly hire summers or new associates.

[Anonymous User]

Holy crap, I want to pick your brain like crazy. I go to NU, have very good grades, on law review, and when I told my Career Adviser I wanted Sacramento I think it took all her strength not to roll her eyes. I went to Davis UG and my wife went to Sac State and her whole family is in the Sac area (Sac/Roseville/Auburn). I know so little about the firms there and would love to hear everything you know about basically every firm.

Anyway, there is only so much info NALP and other sites offer and I have no idea which firms Sac people consider better than others, which ones specialize in which practice area, etc. Are any of the SF firm with tiny satellite offices in Sac a good place to target? Do those firms even have legit summer programs in Sac? What do firms pay (both summer and first year)? The only firm I have heard someone say is worth talking to is Downey Brand (which is not even on Nalp!). The more targets you give me to email the better.

FYI, I want to do litigation, not entirely sure beyond that.

Thanks a lot for this thread, I literally almost started a thread to ask about Sac and am glad I checked recent threads first (always check first).

ETA: No Sac firm is coming to OCI, I need to mail them all. I am bidding SF at OCI.

[Anonymous User]

E.D. Cal. clerk here. Orrick has a summer program, but I'm not sure if the other national firms (MoFo, Pillsbury, DLA, etc.) do. Downey has a very good rep, although it's also had some financial issues over the years. You should also look at some of the NLJ 350-type firms (Stoel, BBK, etc.) as well as some other native Sac shops (boutin jones, Hanson Bridgett, Porter Scott, RMM are a few names that come to mind, but there are lots of others too).

Coming from NU with those grades and LR, you probably have a legitimate shot at clerking for one of the E.D. Cal. judges if that's something you'd want. You're almost better off going to a big SF firm as an SA if that's your plan, though.

[Anonymous User]

E.D. Cal. clerk here. Orrick has a summer program, but I'm not sure if the other national firms (MoFo, Pillsbury, DLA, etc.) do. Downey has a very good rep, although it's also had some financial issues over the years. You should also look at some of the NLJ 350-type firms (Stoel, BBK, etc.) as well as some other native Sac shops (Boutin Jones, Hanson Bridgett, Porter Scott, RMM are a few names that come to mind, but there are lots of others too).

Coming from NU with those grades and LR, you probably have a legitimate shot at clerking for one of the E.D. Cal. judges if that's something you'd want. You're almost better off going to a big SF firm as an SA if that's your plan, though.

NU kid here.
Clerking is definitely the plan. I didn't really think of that before, but would it be better if I summer at SF, clerk, and then apply to Sac coming off the clerkship? That...makes total sense...
I'll still mail these firms this summer just in case. Also, if they pay 3080 I'd still rather Summer in Sac anyway.

Edit: Orrick says this on Nalp: "Sacramento does not have a 2L program. 1Ls are hired through Local Diversity Fellowship Program." Stoel says 2k/week for a Summer on Nalp so for now I'll assume that's market rate in Sac and focus on summering in SF.

[Anonymous User]

E.D. Cal. clerk here:

(1) I know someone who summered at Orrick in 2012 as a 2L. I don't know if it still has a program, but it hired 2Ls recently.

(2) I very much doubt any Sacramento firm is paying 3080 a week. I don't know what the local market rate is but it's not 160. Downey pays 105 or 110 and the big national firms pay somewhere between 115 and 145, IIRC.

(3) Working at an SF firm will not make you any less competitive for the Eastern District. Many clerks there summered at firms in SF or LA. Your Sacramento ties are rock-solid so it's not like you need to spend your 2L summer here to shore them up.

[eav1277]

Quite interested in Central California (especially Sacramento) firms. If OP checks this, please PM me.