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http://abovethelaw.com/2014/07/former-b ... amaze-you/

#1 in class + LR, former head of GT's Ft. Lauderdale litigation department. Looking for contract work on Craigslist. No assignment is too small!

This is your future. Even if you win you lose.

This dude reeks of shitboomer. How in the hell do you end up in this position and not grossly mis-manage your life?

flawschoolkid wrote:This dude reeks of shitboomer. How in the hell do you end up in this position and not grossly mis-manage your life?

If you're going to law school in this economy, you're well on your way vis-a-vis "gross mismanagement." Glass houses and whatnot.

rayiner wrote:

flawschoolkid wrote:This dude reeks of shitboomer. How in the hell do you end up in this position and not grossly mis-manage your life?

If you're going to law school in this economy, you're well on your way vis-a-vis "gross mismanagement." Glass houses and whatnot.

I think he's on the level of paying sticker for cooley at this point, though. Like, really bad.

Guy sounds like he's had some sort of life crisis. This is akin to posting an article about an investment banker that became a homeless drunk in NYC.

What?

This article talks nothing about anything that may have affected him as an attorney. Did he kill someone? Is he addicted to coke? It's unfair to tell law school prospects this is what will happen to them even if they do everything right. We don't know if he did everything right...

But yeah the school he went to was a fourth tier pile of shit.

UF might be a TTT50, but he was #1. Also, someone who makes partner at a V100 probably has better life skills than your average law student. What are you doing to do after big law dumps you?

I don't see much wrong with it. Sure, the picture is a little tacky, but do you expect the guy to NOT list his credentials? To not seek work? I'm going to go out on a limb and say Craigslist isn't the only avenue he is using to drum up work, but why fault the guy for trying?

If you don't have a job, you're supposed to "hustle" and mass mail and cold call and network and blah blah blah. Then if you do that, you should be made fun of?

I get there are questions about how he got to this point in the first place, but for all we know he is wealthy, healthy, and doing just fine but wants to find a little work that doesn't involve taking a full-time position at BigSweatshop or ShitLaw LLC. Or maybe he's in the dumps and is desperate, considering suicide and trying to pay child support so his family doesn't consider him a total loser. In either case, I see no need to judge him over this ad and find the whole ATL article to be petty ("omg he has a tan -- and there are palm trees lololol"). It's like, fuck, who is the immature one here?

One of the thousands of V100 partners screwed up and is now jobless. Therefore, we're all doomed. Got it.

I don't understand what the hell he is doing. He's basically screwing himself over by posting that crap that makes him look needy. Pretty sure a head hunter would have been able to place him into something decent if he had simply called one - he's got pretty killer credentials overall with the 18 years at GT, including being the former head of GT's Ft. Lauderdale litigation department. Not to mention the contacts he probably has after being at partner at GT for as long as he has. He could simply call up one some of his big law partner friends at other firms, and they would most likely be able to help him. I think this guy must have serious mental health related issues; otherwise, the CL post doesn't make much sense.

SLS_AMG wrote:One of the thousands of V100 partners screwed up and is now jobless. Therefore, we're all doomed. Got it.

But we aren't even going to make partner

smallfirmassociate wrote:I don't see much wrong with it. Sure, the picture is a little tacky, but do you expect the guy to NOT list his credentials? To not seek work? I'm going to go out on a limb and say Craigslist isn't the only avenue he is using to drum up work, but why fault the guy for trying?

If you don't have a job, you're supposed to "hustle" and mass mail and cold call and network and blah blah blah. Then if you do that, you should be made fun of?

I get there are questions about how he got to this point in the first place, but for all we know he is wealthy, healthy, and doing just fine but wants to find a little work that doesn't involve taking a full-time position at BigSweatshop or ShitLaw LLC. Or maybe he's in the dumps and is desperate, considering suicide and trying to pay child support so his family doesn't consider him a total loser. In either case, I see no need to judge him over this ad and find the whole ATL article to be petty ("omg he has a tan -- and there are palm trees lololol"). It's like, fuck, who is the immature one here?

I'm not judging the guy. I just want law students to think a little about the whole "hustle and mass mail and cold call and network" thing. It's not something you do just when you're trying to get that first job out of school. You get to a firm and from day 1 you're hustling to either make partner, or find a solid exit option. Then you have to keep hustling to stay partner, or to stay in-house through upheavals in the BoD, etc. And apparently you've got to do it even after two decades at a V100. You're signing up for a career of hustling, because you're signing up for a profession where supply far outstrips demand.

Now, there's nothing wrong with having to hustle. I just think a lot of law students want security and don't appreciate what they're really signing up for. They see older lawyers with a really secure in-house job, or who are partners at a firm with a business that just keeps coming in, and assume that one day they'll get to stop hustling.

rayiner wrote:

smallfirmassociate wrote:I don't see much wrong with it. Sure, the picture is a little tacky, but do you expect the guy to NOT list his credentials? To not seek work? I'm going to go out on a limb and say Craigslist isn't the only avenue he is using to drum up work, but why fault the guy for trying?

If you don't have a job, you're supposed to "hustle" and mass mail and cold call and network and blah blah blah. Then if you do that, you should be made fun of?

I get there are questions about how he got to this point in the first place, but for all we know he is wealthy, healthy, and doing just fine but wants to find a little work that doesn't involve taking a full-time position at BigSweatshop or ShitLaw LLC. Or maybe he's in the dumps and is desperate, considering suicide and trying to pay child support so his family doesn't consider him a total loser. In either case, I see no need to judge him over this ad and find the whole ATL article to be petty ("omg he has a tan -- and there are palm trees lololol"). It's like, fuck, who is the immature one here?

I'm not judging the guy. I just want law students to think a little about the whole "hustle and mass mail and cold call and network" thing. It's not something you do just when you're trying to get that first job. It's something you gotta do to get the second job, then to make partner or find a good exit when you get pushed out of big law, and apparently something you gotta do after 18 years at a V100. That's the nature of an over-saturated field. You're committing to a career of hustling. While that's perfectly fine if that's what you want, I think a lot of law students don't really like to hustle and don't appreciate what they're really signing up for.

What career path doesn't require hustling anymore? Beyond medicine, I mean.

ymmv wrote:

rayiner wrote:

smallfirmassociate wrote:I don't see much wrong with it. Sure, the picture is a little tacky, but do you expect the guy to NOT list his credentials? To not seek work? I'm going to go out on a limb and say Craigslist isn't the only avenue he is using to drum up work, but why fault the guy for trying?

If you don't have a job, you're supposed to "hustle" and mass mail and cold call and network and blah blah blah. Then if you do that, you should be made fun of?

I get there are questions about how he got to this point in the first place, but for all we know he is wealthy, healthy, and doing just fine but wants to find a little work that doesn't involve taking a full-time position at BigSweatshop or ShitLaw LLC. Or maybe he's in the dumps and is desperate, considering suicide and trying to pay child support so his family doesn't consider him a total loser. In either case, I see no need to judge him over this ad and find the whole ATL article to be petty ("omg he has a tan -- and there are palm trees lololol"). It's like, fuck, who is the immature one here?

I'm not judging the guy. I just want law students to think a little about the whole "hustle and mass mail and cold call and network" thing. It's not something you do just when you're trying to get that first job. It's something you gotta do to get the second job, then to make partner or find a good exit when you get pushed out of big law, and apparently something you gotta do after 18 years at a V100. That's the nature of an over-saturated field. You're committing to a career of hustling. While that's perfectly fine if that's what you want, I think a lot of law students don't really like to hustle and don't appreciate what they're really signing up for.

What career path doesn't require hustling anymore? Beyond medicine, I mean.

Not that many, but I think your average law student is pretty insulated from that reality and doesn't appreciate how much that applies to the legal profession too.

flawschoolkid wrote:

rayiner wrote:

flawschoolkid wrote:This dude reeks of shitboomer. How in the hell do you end up in this position and not grossly mis-manage your life?

If you're going to law school in this economy, you're well on your way vis-a-vis "gross mismanagement." Glass houses and whatnot.

I think he's on the level of paying sticker for cooley at this point, though. Like, really bad.

Uh, no. I don't think you're getting it. This obviously has nothing to do with choices he made before/during law school. He obviously did very well but still got pwnd by a perpetually shitty legal economy.

Do we know anything beyond that this guy used to be a partner at a V100 firm, and how he's soliciting business on Craigslist? What makes people so positive that the economy is to blame for this? Obviously the economy and legal market are horrible right now, but using one person's story to make a negative statement about how bad things are (with very little context or specifics) is just as bad as using an anecdotal success story to show how good things are. Look to larger trends, not individual stories.

moonman157 wrote:Do we know anything beyond that this guy used to be a partner at a V100 firm, and how he's soliciting business on Craigslist? What makes people so positive that the economy is to blame for this? Obviously the economy and legal market are horrible right now, but using one person's story to make a negative statement about how bad things are (with very little context or specifics) is just as bad as using an anecdotal success story to show how good things are. Look to larger trends, not individual stories.

There are implications to someone looking for jobs on Craigslist that you are conveniently ignoring. Just off the top of my head:

1) It means recruiters could not help this guy, even though recruiters *can* help the vast majority of biglaw partners land *somewhere*, given their talents, book of business and expertise.

2) Because of 1), it means this biglaw partner literally had no more business or business development potential, despite having a lot of (presumably good) experience.

3) 2) doesn't happen without there being some kind of shortage of work, even for partners with lots of experience.

A lot of people ITT are implying this partner must have been mentally ill or something. Well, I'll let you in on a little secret: all partners are mentally ill. That's part of what makes them great attorneys.

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:

flawschoolkid wrote:

rayiner wrote:

flawschoolkid wrote:This dude reeks of shitboomer. How in the hell do you end up in this position and not grossly mis-manage your life?

If you're going to law school in this economy, you're well on your way vis-a-vis "gross mismanagement." Glass houses and whatnot.

I think he's on the level of paying sticker for cooley at this point, though. Like, really bad.

Uh, no. I don't think you're getting it. This obviously has nothing to do with choices he made before/during law school. He obviously did very well but still got pwnd by a perpetually shitty legal economy.

Ever hear of an analogy champ?

Danger Zone wrote:

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:

flawschoolkid wrote:

rayiner wrote:
If you're going to law school in this economy, you're well on your way vis-a-vis "gross mismanagement." Glass houses and whatnot.

I think he's on the level of paying sticker for cooley at this point, though. Like, really bad.

Uh, no. I don't think you're getting it. This obviously has nothing to do with choices he made before/during law school. He obviously did very well but still got pwnd by a perpetually shitty legal economy.

Ever hear of an analogy champ?

Yeah, it was a really poor analogy because what happens to you after you graduate from law school is a lot less controllable than what happens to you before law school. That's my main point.

There must be more to this story

People (including partners) get thrown out of their firms all the time but to be seeking contract work is very weird

People ITT are so quick to say that this guy fucked up somewhere, but here's the thing: odds are you won't graduate #1 at your law school, odds are you won't make partner at a V100, odds are you won't head up a department at said V100. What makes you think you're more likely to avoid having to beg for work on Craigslist than someone who did all these things?

"I just need to make partner so I can sit under the legal-work tree and wait for work to fall in my lap for the rest of my life." -Literally what law students think

rayiner wrote:People ITT are so quick to say that this guy fucked up somewhere, but here's the thing: odds are you won't graduate #1 at your law school, odds are you won't make partner at a V100, odds are you won't head up a department at said V100. What makes you think you're more likely to avoid having to beg for work on Craigslist than someone who did all these things?

I think that most people who make partner at V100s will never again troll craigslist for work. That was my reaction to the story/your post.

I think that I might someday. I'll admit my poor choices. I'm doing literally everything I can to avoid that, though.

People always tell 0Ls not to bank on having an atypically good outcome, which is a good rule of thumb. This seems like such an atypically bad outcome that the same rule applies. I'm sure we could find an MD turned crackhead somewhere, but I don't think it's something most doctors need to be worried about.