When to leave GPA off resume Forum

[Anonymous User]

At a top 25 school with a top under grad degree but i've always had a habit of falling at the median no matter where I am at school (high school, College, LS --> I test very well on LSAT/SAT/ACT etc). I've been told I interview very well and I have a very good background (IBanking, Consulting, Startups of my own). When i've spoke to partners/hiring managers they tell me my GPA (3.25) really hurts me and when they see that they would fail to look at my experience most of the time. They've told me this may result in me missing opportunities I could have a solid chance to be in the running for if given the interview.

So i ask when is it advisable to skip putting my GPA on the resume?

Career office said don't do it b/c firms assume you are below a 3.0.

On the other hand an 4th year associate who does interviews at a V10 said to leave my 3.25 off b/c she'll focus on that and not much else. It doesn't matter what my background is.

What is the consensus?

[Anonymous User]

At a top 25 school with a top under grad degree but i've always had a habit of falling at the median no matter where I am at school (high school, College, LS --> I test very well on LSAT/SAT/ACT etc). I've been told I interview very well and I have a very good background (IBanking, Consulting, Startups of my own). When i've spoke to partners/hiring managers they tell me my GPA (3.25) really hurts me and when they see that they would fail to look at my experience most of the time. They've told me this may result in me missing opportunities I could have a solid chance to be in the running for if given the interview.

So i ask when is it advisable to skip putting my GPA on the resume?

Career office said don't do it b/c firms assume you are below a 3.0.

On the other hand an 4th year associate who does interviews at a V10 said to leave my 3.25 off b/c she'll focus on that and not much else. It doesn't matter what my background is.

What is the consensus?

I'd recommend taking it off for firms with higher cutoffs and keeping it on for lower cutoff firms. We would probably need a better sense of your school gpa breakdown in order to make a more specific assessment. Without anything further, and assuming you're exactly at median, I'd put it on for firms top 1/3 and below; and take it off for anything higher.

[Anonymous User]

At a top 25 school with a top under grad degree but i've always had a habit of falling at the median no matter where I am at school (high school, College, LS --> I test very well on LSAT/SAT/ACT etc). I've been told I interview very well and I have a very good background (IBanking, Consulting, Startups of my own). When i've spoke to partners/hiring managers they tell me my GPA (3.25) really hurts me and when they see that they would fail to look at my experience most of the time. They've told me this may result in me missing opportunities I could have a solid chance to be in the running for if given the interview.

So i ask when is it advisable to skip putting my GPA on the resume?

Career office said don't do it b/c firms assume you are below a 3.0.

On the other hand an 4th year associate who does interviews at a V10 said to leave my 3.25 off b/c she'll focus on that and not much else. It doesn't matter what my background is.

What is the consensus?

I'd recommend taking it off for firms with higher cutoffs and keeping it on for lower cutoff firms. We would probably need a better sense of your school gpa breakdown in order to make a more specific assessment. Without anything further, and assuming you're exactly at median, I'd put it on for firms top 1/3 and below; and take it off for anything higher.

Median for last semester was between 3.15 and 3.2 - it's historically been the same, if not down .02-.05 2nd semester.

[dead head]

On the other hand an 4th year associate who does interviews at a V10 said to leave my 3.25 off b/c she'll focus on that and not much else. It doesn't matter what my background is.

Forget about V10, a 3.25 from a T25 is going to disqualify you from just about any biglaw position. This is likely why everyone you're talking to mentions how big a problem it is, even though your UG and WE is otherwise attractive.

You can try leaving it off, but I don't think you're going to get offered many interviews without providing your GPA. You may try to leave your GPA off your resume and simply provide a transcript, but they're still going to know your GPA. This approach may help if you actually do receive an interview and your interviewer is only working off of your resume (which is somewhat unlikely, since he'll probably look at your transcript as soon as he notices your GPA is missing from your resume). It will also help if you do manage to land an interview without providing any GPA information at all, but this seems unlikely unless you have lottery-based OCI (and even then, they'll probably ask for a transcript right away unless you school only allows them to ask at the end of the interview).

The bottom line is that biglaw firms are unlikely to offer you an interview unless you give them your GPA. Networking like you're currently doing may land you an interview or two, but in almost all circumstances they are also going to want to know your GPA before offering you an interview. That's just the reality. I mean, these layers you have spoken to have suggested you would be in the running if people read past your GPA and got to your experience: well, these lawyers saying this have gotten past your GPA and seen your experience, but how many job interviews/callbacks have they led to?

[Anonymous User]

At a top 25 school with a top under grad degree but i've always had a habit of falling at the median no matter where I am at school (high school, College, LS --> I test very well on LSAT/SAT/ACT etc). I've been told I interview very well and I have a very good background (IBanking, Consulting, Startups of my own). When i've spoke to partners/hiring managers they tell me my GPA (3.25) really hurts me and when they see that they would fail to look at my experience most of the time. They've told me this may result in me missing opportunities I could have a solid chance to be in the running for if given the interview.

So i ask when is it advisable to skip putting my GPA on the resume?

Career office said don't do it b/c firms assume you are below a 3.0.

On the other hand an 4th year associate who does interviews at a V10 said to leave my 3.25 off b/c she'll focus on that and not much else. It doesn't matter what my background is.

What is the consensus?

I'd recommend taking it off for firms with higher cutoffs and keeping it on for lower cutoff firms. We would probably need a better sense of your school gpa breakdown in order to make a more specific assessment. Without anything further, and assuming you're exactly at median, I'd put it on for firms top 1/3 and below; and take it off for anything higher.

Median for last semester was between 3.15 and 3.2 - it's historically been the same, if not down .02-.05 2nd semester.

Also, do firms typically cut off at top third? Or higher? And how do those %s translate to GPA numbers? Basically, if the cutoff for firms is super high, then it might make more sense to leave off your gpa. And the reason I ask for specific GPA numbers (feel free to keep them private for anon purposes) is because if top 1/3 was 3.6, and firms cut off at 1/3, there's a more noticeable difference between your 3.25 and the 3.6. Some schools have a top1/3 at 3.4, in which case the margin might be more forgivable.

The other poster is probably right about V10 and a lot of other firms though. One way to mitigate it a bit is: if you had a much higher gpa during one semester you can put that GPA next to your cumulative gpa on your résumé.

[Anonymous User]

At a top 25 school with a top under grad degree but i've always had a habit of falling at the median no matter where I am at school (high school, College, LS --> I test very well on LSAT/SAT/ACT etc). I've been told I interview very well and I have a very good background (IBanking, Consulting, Startups of my own). When i've spoke to partners/hiring managers they tell me my GPA (3.25) really hurts me and when they see that they would fail to look at my experience most of the time. They've told me this may result in me missing opportunities I could have a solid chance to be in the running for if given the interview.

So i ask when is it advisable to skip putting my GPA on the resume?

Career office said don't do it b/c firms assume you are below a 3.0.

On the other hand an 4th year associate who does interviews at a V10 said to leave my 3.25 off b/c she'll focus on that and not much else. It doesn't matter what my background is.

What is the consensus?

I'd recommend taking it off for firms with higher cutoffs and keeping it on for lower cutoff firms. We would probably need a better sense of your school gpa breakdown in order to make a more specific assessment. Without anything further, and assuming you're exactly at median, I'd put it on for firms top 1/3 and below; and take it off for anything higher.

Median for last semester was between 3.15 and 3.2 - it's historically been the same, if not down .02-.05 2nd semester.

Also, do firms typically cut off at top third? Or higher? And how do those %s translate to GPA numbers? Basically, if the cutoff for firms is super high, then it might make more sense to leave off your gpa. And the reason I ask for specific GPA numbers (feel free to keep them private for anon purposes) is because if top 1/3 was 3.6, and firms cut off at 1/3, there's a more noticeable difference between your 3.25 and the 3.6. Some schools have a top1/3 at 3.4, in which case the margin might be more forgivable.

The other poster is probably right about V10 and a lot of other firms though. One way to mitigate it a bit is: if you had a much higher gpa during one semester you can put that GPA next to your cumulative gpa on your résumé.

The school doesn't release % ranking to US - nor the employer. So All we know is if we fall into the top 5% of the class or if we are above/below median - the cumulative median for this semester still hasn't been calculated.

Last semester I was .2 above the median and had a drop this semester due to a B.

[Anonymous User]

if you had a much higher gpa during one semester you can put that GPA next to your cumulative gpa on your résumé.

How would you put this?

GPA: First semester: 3.x, Second Semester: 3.x, Cumulative: 3.x??

[Anonymous User]

Forget about V10, a 3.25 from a T25 is going to disqualify you from just about any biglaw position. This is likely why everyone you're talking to mentions how big a problem it is, even though your UG and WE is otherwise attractive.

This was my gut feeling except a Skadden/Cravath/S&C partner actually reached out to me after seeing my resume which we needed to submit with an RSVP to one of the cocktail receptions. We've had a few meetings and lunches, with other partners as well, and has hinted at a willingness to go to bat for me to land an interview. They don't have a GPA cutoff for our OCI so who knows. He could just be jerking me around or I could just be reading into it too much, but i'm going to work that angle as much as possible.

[igo2northwestern]

if you had a much higher gpa during one semester you can put that GPA next to your cumulative gpa on your résumé.

How would you put this?

GPA: First semester: 3.x, Second Semester: 3.x, Cumulative: 3.x??

CGPA: 3.x
Spring 2014: 3.x

Forget the semester with the lower GPA for sure. It's not dishonest; some firms just want to know that you have that kind of potential.

[mr.hands]

A median/below median GPA at a school ranked 20-25 is not good enough (in most cases) to land big law, much less a V10. So obviously in that sense your GPA hurts, just as it would anyone else around there.

The solution is finding midlaw and less selective regional big law firms that hire from your school, not simply leaving your GPA off your resume. At some point they'll find out about the grades. Adjust expectations accordingly

[WhiskeynCoke]

I vote for leaving your GPA off your resume, but also submitting a transcript as a separate attachment. This is because I suspect most interviewers will look at your resume first, and thus have an opportunity to form an initial positive opinion of you based on your experience. My school doesn't calculate GPA's, so all of us have no GPA on our resume. It's not that weird/uncommon in general.

Sure, they'll see your GPA on your transcript, but at that point they may be more amenable to cutting you some slack. If you put it on your resume, It will be near the top in your education section, and will essentially poison their perception of you immediately, well before they lay eyes on your desirable work experience.

Your goal = Have interviewers see your experience before your GPA. First impressions last. The more time that passes between the two, the better.

[Anonymous User]

I vote for leaving your GPA off your resume, but also submitting a transcript as a separate attachment. This is because I suspect most interviewers will look at your resume first, and thus have an opportunity to form an initial positive opinion of you based on your experience. My school doesn't calculate GPA's, so all of us have no GPA on our resume. It's not that weird/uncommon in general.

Sure, they'll see your GPA on your transcript, but at that point they may be more amenable to cutting you some slack. If you put it on your resume, It will be near the top in your education section, and will essentially poison their perception of you immediately, well before they lay eyes on your desirable work experience.

Your goal = Have interviewers see your experience before your GPA. First impressions last. The more time that passes between the two, the better.

Mmm, I don't think this thought process really applies to OP, since s/he is at a school where performers will put their gpas on their résumé. Removing it from the résumé, in comparison to those who have them on, naturally draws inferences.

Yes, there are schools that even prohibit placing gpas on resumes, and in those situations, your logic applies seamlessly. OP I'd go with the whole dual GPA thing and/or being selective about certain firms. If your GPA high is typically sufficient for Biglaw, do the dual GPA tactic.

[XxSpyKEx]

A median/below median GPA at a school ranked 20-25 is not good enough (in most cases) to land big law, much less a V10. So obviously in that sense your GPA hurts, just as it would anyone else around there.

The solution is finding midlaw and less selective regional big law firms that hire from your school, not simply leaving your GPA off your resume. At some point they'll find out about the grades. Adjust expectations accordingly

I think "shoot for midlaw" advice was something that probably worked back in 2007 (when practically anyone with a t14 on his/her resume could get biglaw). I don't think it will today. Midlaw cares about grades, and there are enough people at top schools without big law jobs that midlaw positions can be quite competitive, especially since midsize firms hire a lot fewer people than big law firms (e.g. there are arguably 5-10 midlaw firms in Chicago and probably 10-15 SAs available at those size firms in Chicago).

[BruceWayne]

I think "shoot for midlaw" advice was something that probably worked back in 2007 (when practically anyone with a t14 on his/her resume could get biglaw). I don't think it will today. Midlaw cares about grades, and there are enough people at top schools without big law jobs that midlaw positions can be quite competitive, especially since midsize firms hire a lot fewer people than big law firms (e.g. there are arguably 5-10 midlaw firms in Chicago and probably 10-15 SAs available at those size firms in Chicago).

A median/below median GPA at a school ranked 20-25 is not good enough (in most cases) to land big law, much less a V10. So obviously in that sense your GPA hurts, just as it would anyone else around there. The solution is finding midlaw and less selective regional big law firms that hire from your school, not simply leaving your GPA off your resume. At some point they'll find out about the grades. Adjust expectations accordingly

I think "shoot for midlaw" advice was something that probably worked back in 2007 (when practically anyone with a t14 on his/her resume could get biglaw). I don't think it will today. Midlaw cares about grades, and there are enough people at top schools without big law jobs that midlaw positions can be quite competitive, especially since midsize firms hire a lot fewer people than big law firms (e.g. there are arguably 5-10 midlaw firms in Chicago and probably 10-15 SAs available at those size firms in Chicago).

In a way midlaw firms are even more selective in regards to grades because they are only accustomed to hiring from top of the class at regional schools. Those type of firms don't really like the idea of hiring people with average or worse grades from say Penn or whatever just because it's a top 14 school. They rather stick to just hiring the cream of the crop at their local schools. Maybe going to Harvard or something will give you leeway but again these midsize firms have a specific recruiting formula that doesn't include dipping down to bad grades--regardless of the school for the most part.