Top Law Schools

Currently at a school rank ~60 on East Coast. I have a 3.82 gpa, law review, and a current 1L summer position at a v200 law firm. I am mass mailing NJ and NY. What are the usual returns on mass mailing? I understand they vary dramatically based on school strength, grades, year of applicant, etc. Just wondering if I should even expect 2 or 3 callbacks via this effort.

Thanks and happy fourth!

I got one screener and one CB out of mass mailing the TX market. I probably mass mailed about 30 firms. I had to withdraw before I found out about an offer due to an expiring offer at my current firm. In hindsight, all the hours totally worth it.

Wow that is great to hear... I think I am mass mailing close to 100 firms (just because there is a huge market). Hopefully I will grab something as you did!

when do firms begin doing screeners and call backs? Mid august? Should I not expect to hear anything for 4-6 weeks?

I sent out like 500 resumes and got 1 CB. It turned into the firm I'm SA-in at now. It only takes 1.

You're right -- just one bite. I know I can kill it on an interview. I just need the opportunity to be in front of someone.

Out of more massmails than I can remember, I got 1 callback, and several OCI preselects (as in, told I'd get an interview even before bidding began). Also got a few free meals

As a 3L: sent out around 400 letters/resumes between January and April. I got one interview and two "get back to us when you pass the bar" reply letters. I was targeting major cities in the North East, and my (small) home market.

The returns are minimal, if any. But, what else do you have to do with your time?

By the way, NYC is the least friendly to mass mailers. They seem to get a lot of resumes, so they'll rarely respond.

I mailed 4 firms in my 1L summer secondary (ok, tertiary) market. Got 3 interviews from that, 3 callbacks, and 1 offer. I didn't really have any ties there before 1L summer (aside from general region ties), but I sold HARD how much I wanted to come back to that city.

Median at a far away T-14.

ETA: I just want to clarify, this was a TINY market (the 4 firms I sent letters to = almost all the large-ish firms in that city). I'm sure it is different at places where they get tons of resumes in the mail from people all over the country.

3L vs 2l seems to yield different results

zoomzoom88 wrote:Currently at a school rank ~60 on East Coast. I have a 3.82 gpa, law review, and a current 1L summer position at a v200 law firm. I am mass mailing NJ and NY. What are the usual returns on mass mailing? I understand they vary dramatically based on school strength, grades, year of applicant, etc. Just wondering if I should even expect 2 or 3 callbacks via this effort.

Thanks and happy fourth!

With your credentials, you'll get a couple of bites mass mailing that market. You're set to do well at OCI. Practice your interviewing and you'll come out with an offer.

Thank you - I appreciate that. I sent out about 100 mass mail focusing on Northern NJ and NYC. Quite a few dings so far.. will update this for posterity if I get returns from mass mailing.

What kind of shot would somebody at the bottom of the class at CCN have in massmailing? I'm talking 2.8. Are there some firms that would be into the CCN, despite the very low GPA?

Anonymous User wrote:What kind of shot would somebody at the bottom of the class at CCN have in massmailing? I'm talking 2.8. Are there some firms that would be into the CCN, despite the very low GPA?

you could get some bites but mass-mailing is more likely to be successful for you in case you strike out at OCI and then email firms (when they have open spots they are looking to fill).

applepiecrust wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:What kind of shot would somebody at the bottom of the class at CCN have in massmailing? I'm talking 2.8. Are there some firms that would be into the CCN, despite the very low GPA?

you could get some bites but mass-mailing is more likely to be successful for you in case you strike out at OCI and then email firms (when they have open spots they are looking to fill).

OP here. Thank you, that's interesting insight and not something I've actually heard suggested before. You think waiting to massmail anyone until late September after it's clear I struck out is really a smarter move? Is that because firms assume somebody at CCN is going to find something at OCI and thus would not be worth the time in July? It seems risky to me and I'm trying to be risk averse to ensure I get an offer.

Anonymous User wrote:

applepiecrust wrote: you could get some bites but mass-mailing is more likely to be successful for you in case you strike out at OCI and then email firms (when they have open spots they are looking to fill).

Thank you, that's interesting insight and not something I've actually heard suggested before. You think waiting to massmail anyone until late September after it's clear I struck out is really a smarter move? Is that because firms assume somebody at CCN is going to find something at OCI and thus would not be worth the time in July? It seems risky to me and I'm trying to be risk averse to ensure I get an offer.

That's not insight, but stupidity. Wait until you strike out and you'll be competing with everyone else who struck out and are scrambling (many of whom will have better grades), and are additionally limited to the very small number of firms who are so undersubscribed that a 2.8 looks attractive.

A 2.8 obviously isn't a great place to be. I think you might have more success if you mass mail secondary markets and everywhere you have ties to, and anywhere else that a CN grad would be highly attractive, regardless of grades. This may also include major market midlaw, I don't know. Probably your career services has some ideas.

You think waiting to mass-mail anyone until late September after it's clear I struck out is really a smarter move?

The problem is that private non-OCI hiring is highly variable, as a result of unpredictable individual needs and undisclosed/unexamined industry trends. Firms are not abiding by a set of uniform rules printed out by a central Firm Hiring Headquarters, and distributed to the top 250 by X date. This is all largely Voodoo, personal opinion, and collective guessing. That being said, the collective guesswork suggests that:

* Some large firms will have openings right after OCI. They might advertise these between September and November. Key word: might. Some of these spots are filled without ever seeing the light of the internet. This is particularly true in the smaller regional offices of national firms.

* Small and mid-sized firms are a mystery. Their hiring depends on the market, the competition, their needs, timing, and ingredient X. Some don't hire. Some hire in March. Some hire in November. Some hire only after you've had lunch with 3 associates who are willing to bat for you after a 2 month courtship.

So, here's my take on things (it's similar to dead head's): there's really no way to predict what will happen on the firm side of things. It's way too unpredictable, variable, and ultimately out of your control. What you do know is that, by the time a firm makes a public listing, or by the time people start striking out of OCI, you're going to have a lot more competition to worry about.

What you can do is send the resumes out now, and wait until October to follow-up and reiterate interest (when everyone else is just starting to worry).

Really, you're not going to get a definitive "if A -> B" answer here, because there isn't one.

If you're really interested in a particular large firm, is it strange to massmail 5 of their offices (they are all locations I'd be interested in working in)? Do the offices even communicate about these kinds of things?

Anonymous User wrote:If you're really interested in a particular large firm, is it strange to massmail 5 of their offices (they are all locations I'd be interested in working in)? Do the offices even communicate about these kinds of things?

Some firms explicitly said online to indicate the main office of choice. I applied to multiple offices of a certain firm and received a response asking me to rate which office I would be most interested in. So some firms do communicate about these kind of things but other firms haven't said anything about it to me yet.

.

rad lulz wrote:Waiting to strike out before mailing is the dumbest thing I've heard, ever

Whole point of mailing is to provide the safety net when you do strike out at OCI.

OutCold wrote:

rad lulz wrote:Waiting to strike out before mailing is the dumbest thing I've heard, ever

Whole point of mailing is to provide the safety net when you do strike out at OCI.

But dude it is SO INCONVENIENT to download all that NALP mail merge data. I mean I already have two callbacks so it's pretty unnecessary right??? You should know I am also a very good interviewer!