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I've read conflicting things as to the exit options out of the lower V100 vs V50/25 etc. Clearly the latter will be "better," but I'm not sure what that means. Also, others have said that 5-10 years out, there will be little difference.

Does anyone have more specific examples? Maybe some attorneys can speak to their experiences, from or of the Dentons/Stroocks/HughesHubbards/KramerLevins of the world.

I'm concerned mainly with corporate.

Vault is a shitty list, but admittedly most relevant for NYC corporate/transactional. The further you venture from that paradigm, the less meaningful it becomes for exit ops or anything else.

Even for corporate. If you're in LA, Sheppard Mullin (~85) won't be a worse place to exit from than the SoCal satellite of some V50. Same with Haynes & Boone in Dallas (V90's), Fenwick in the Bay (V80's), Dorsey in Minneapolia (top firm in the region but in the 80's on vault), the list goes on of firms outside the v50 that would have solid exit ops in their market: Venable in DC, Perkins Coie in seattle, Jenner in Chicago, Troutman Sanders in dixie (I don't even know if theu made vault this yr).

In other words vault sucks and you have to gauge based on the presence of ylur firm in the specific market and how in-house counsel or corporate leadership generally view the firm to see how you might be approached as an in-house lateral candidate.

jbagelboy wrote:Vault is a shitty list, but admittedly most relevant for NYC corporate/transactional. The further you venture from that paradigm, the less meaningful it becomes for exit ops or anything else.

Even for corporate. If you're in LA, Sheppard Mullin (~85) won't be a worse place to exit from than the SoCal satellite of some V50. Same with Haynes & Boone in Dallas (V90's), Fenwick in the Bay (V80's), Dorsey in Minneapolia (top firm in the region but in the 80's on vault), the list goes on of firms outside the v50 that would have solid exit ops in their market: Venable in DC, Perkins Coie in seattle, Jenner in Chicago, Troutman Sanders in dixie (I don't even know if theu made vault this yr).

In other words vault sucks and you have to gauge based on the presence of ylur firm in the specific market and how in-house counsel or corporate leadership generally view the firm to see how you might be approached as an in-house lateral candidate.

Ok so then what about NYC?

In NYC people say V10+a few (like Paul Weiss) makes a noticeable difference. Between some V50 and another firm "lower down" I'm not sure anyone can say, but I doubt it's a meaningful distinction. IMO if there are other factors in play in your choice between firms, this shouldn't be a huge one, again certain very top transactional practices notwithstanding.

gnuwheels wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:Vault is a shitty list, but admittedly most relevant for NYC corporate/transactional. The further you venture from that paradigm, the less meaningful it becomes for exit ops or anything else.

Even for corporate. If you're in LA, Sheppard Mullin (~85) won't be a worse place to exit from than the SoCal satellite of some V50. Same with Haynes & Boone in Dallas (V90's), Fenwick in the Bay (V80's), Dorsey in Minneapolia (top firm in the region but in the 80's on vault), the list goes on of firms outside the v50 that would have solid exit ops in their market: Venable in DC, Perkins Coie in seattle, Jenner in Chicago, Troutman Sanders in dixie (I don't even know if theu made vault this yr).

In other words vault sucks and you have to gauge based on the presence of ylur firm in the specific market and how in-house counsel or corporate leadership generally view the firm to see how you might be approached as an in-house lateral candidate.

Ok so then what about NYC?

Depends on a lot more than vault ranking. The quality of the group and clients you work for is more important.

Quality of group reigns over all, but you'll find that the "V10+ a few" in NYC have uniformly sterling corporate practices (and as you climb higher on the list, usually litigation too) which makes that proxy somewhat useful (basically, if you go to one of those firms you would have to try to have "bad" exit options).

Career paths wind up having a lot to do with what you do and who you know. The names and ampersands on your resume will matter at least a little, but not nearly as much as your connections and the market (geographic + practice area) in which you do work and/or want to work. These days (as a random example), if you do (hard) IP it seems like you can write your own ticket; if you're doing general commercial litigation at a middling firm you'll find mobility is substantially more difficult given the sea changes to litigation and the continued effects of the recession. And if you get into a very finance-centric practice in NYC, whatever exit options you have won't be strong outside of NYC, etc.

I work at an NYC "V10+ a few" and am constantly bombarded with headhunters, but I'm not sure people often use them or if they're even the best avenue for career transitions. But that path seems mostly for other firms and geographic moves, which probably aren't what the average law student dreams of when thinking about "exit options." I will say the people I've seen leave have gone to cool/impressive places. I don't have a lot of good evidence/data/annecdote from other firms, but I can at least report that "NYC 'V10+ a few' = good exit options" has seemed accurate.

Thanks for the response. Anyone have any direct or anecdotal experience regarding exit options at firms like the ones I mentioned?

jbagelboy wrote:Even for corporate. If you're in LA, Sheppard Mullin (~85) won't be a worse place to exit from than the SoCal satellite of some V50. Same with Haynes & Boone in Dallas (V90's), Fenwick in the Bay (V80's), Dorsey in Minneapolia (top firm in the region but in the 80's on vault), the list goes on of firms outside the v50 that would have solid exit ops in their market: Venable in DC, Perkins Coie in seattle, Jenner in Chicago, Troutman Sanders in dixie (I don't even know if theu made vault this yr).

Wanted to necro this to ask a question. How do we find where associates from firms are exiting, I know there's no list or anything but other than just asking people at the firm, are there alternatives?

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:Even for corporate. If you're in LA, Sheppard Mullin (~85) won't be a worse place to exit from than the SoCal satellite of some V50. Same with Haynes & Boone in Dallas (V90's), Fenwick in the Bay (V80's), Dorsey in Minneapolia (top firm in the region but in the 80's on vault), the list goes on of firms outside the v50 that would have solid exit ops in their market: Venable in DC, Perkins Coie in seattle, Jenner in Chicago, Troutman Sanders in dixie (I don't even know if theu made vault this yr).

Wanted to necro this to ask a question. How do we find where associates from firms are exiting, I know there's no list or anything but other than just asking people at the firm, are there alternatives?

Libkedin

Maybe too late for new-OP if you're already in practice, but if you're interviewing/in school and have this question:

1. Get to know alumni from your school who went to that firm or get info on them through school if possible

2. During OCI there might be a way to ask about where firm alumni end up. This is a careful line to walk b/c you don't want to sound like you're definitely planning on ditching the firm at first opportunity, but if phrased right could be an opportunity for the firm to brag about where its people are.

I am still trying to figure out what exit options for general commercial lit from one of those V10 + a fews (more known for lit) will look like and if it is as dire as you hear about around here.

I have talked to alums there, and they said the exit options are great, but of course they did.

Anonymous User wrote:I am still trying to figure out what exit options for general commercial lit from one of those V10 + a fews (more known for lit) will look like and if it is as dire as you hear about around here.

I have talked to alums there, and they said the exit options are great, but of course they did.

Vault rankings are almost 100% meaningless for lit. As long as you're at a firm most people have heard of, the type of work experience you have is infinitely more important than the Vault rank of your firm. A 3rd year at Cravath who has only done doc review is less valuable than a 2nd year at K&L Gates who has taken depositions, written expert reports and argued a motion.

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am still trying to figure out what exit options for general commercial lit from one of those V10 + a fews (more known for lit) will look like and if it is as dire as you hear about around here.

I have talked to alums there, and they said the exit options are great, but of course they did.

Vault rankings are almost 100% meaningless for lit. As long as you're at a firm most people have heard of, the type of work experience you have is infinitely more important than the Vault rank of your firm. A 3rd year at Cravath who has only done doc review is less valuable than a 2nd year at K&L Gates who has taken depositions, written expert reports and argued a motion.

Damn, I was hoping that a big lit firm (fuck it, Paul Weiss is the one I am talking about since I am anon) would help make it somewhat easier. I guess I will focus on trying to get substantive experience.

Thanks for the response.