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Hey y'all. I know this question's been done to death (just don't bomb and you're fine!) But there doesn't seem to be much in the way of answering that question with untraditional grades (hard to understand bombing with 60% of the class get Ps). So--are there people on non-traditional grading systems who had 2L grade drops, went to a big firm, and can speak to it?

I got 2 HHs/3 Hs fall semester (more or less in line with my 1L year) but absolutely BOMBED spring semester (all Ps; its a long story involving some family stuff).

I fully expect to get blown to smithereens for asking this same, old, tried question--but I had to try.

Clarification: This is in the context of the offer/no-offer discussion (thus, why it's been done to death).

Anonymous User wrote:Hey y'all. I know this question's been done to death (just don't bomb and you're fine!) But there doesn't seem to be much in the way of answering that question with untraditional grades (hard to understand bombing with 60% of the class get Ps). So--are there people on non-traditional grading systems who had 2L grade drops, went to a big firm, and can speak to it?

I got 2 HHs/3 Hs fall semester (more or less in line with my 1L year) but absolutely BOMBED spring semester (all Ps; its a long story involving some family stuff).

I fully expect to get blown to smithereens for asking this same, old, tried question--but I had to try.

Are you asking whether your grades give you a shot at 3L OCI, or whether your 2L SA will no-offer you because of a bad semester?

Tanicius wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hey y'all. I know this question's been done to death (just don't bomb and you're fine!) But there doesn't seem to be much in the way of answering that question with untraditional grades (hard to understand bombing with 60% of the class get Ps). So--are there people on non-traditional grading systems who had 2L grade drops, went to a big firm, and can speak to it?

I got 2 HHs/3 Hs fall semester (more or less in line with my 1L year) but absolutely BOMBED spring semester (all Ps; its a long story involving some family stuff).

I fully expect to get blown to smithereens for asking this same, old, tried question--but I had to try.

Are you asking whether your grades give you a shot at 3L OCI, or whether your 2L SA will no-offer you because of a bad semester?

Whether a no-offer would even be considered for grades (I understand grades are often used as a reason, but really are more like an excuse used by firms). Should have been more clear.

Anonymous User wrote: Whether a no-offer would even be considered for grades (I understand grades are often used as a reason, but really are more like an excuse used by firms). Should have been more clear.

It is possible, but it is rare to get completely blindsided. They usually at least ask you about the grades. If it comes up in a closed door meeting, tell them the reason they dropped, if you are comfortable disclosing the family info. I think most people would understand.

It depends a bit on the firm, but you almost certainly have nothing to worry about.

Tanicius wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Whether a no-offer would even be considered for grades (I understand grades are often used as a reason, but really are more like an excuse used by firms). Should have been more clear.

It is possible, but it is rare to get completely blindsided. They usually at least ask you about the grades. If it comes up in a closed door meeting, tell them the reason they dropped, if you are comfortable disclosing the family info. I think most people would understand.

Well that's at least comforting. I was worried they wouldn't even give me the benefit of the doubt and allow me to explain.

Anonymous User wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Whether a no-offer would even be considered for grades (I understand grades are often used as a reason, but really are more like an excuse used by firms). Should have been more clear.

It is possible, but it is rare to get completely blindsided. They usually at least ask you about the grades. If it comes up in a closed door meeting, tell them the reason they dropped, if you are comfortable disclosing the family info. I think most people would understand.

Well that's at least comforting. I was worried they wouldn't even give me the benefit of the doubt and allow me to explain.

One word of caution: don't lean too heavily on your family situation unless it's really exceptional and tragic. If your parents unexpectedly died in a car accident or something then, yeah, you've got a good reason for the drop off in grades. But if the family situation is more mundane (e.g., one of your parents got sick and you needed to help out), I'd think twice before making a big deal about it when explaining your grades.

One of the big red flags for a firm is when an associate seems incapable of coping with the stresses of life. Working lawyers have to deal with marital problems, family illnesses, and other routine (but difficult) issues. You don't want to seem like someone who will fall apart when confronted by the challenges that almost everyone has to deal with in life.

rpupkin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Whether a no-offer would even be considered for grades (I understand grades are often used as a reason, but really are more like an excuse used by firms). Should have been more clear.

It is possible, but it is rare to get completely blindsided. They usually at least ask you about the grades. If it comes up in a closed door meeting, tell them the reason they dropped, if you are comfortable disclosing the family info. I think most people would understand.

Well that's at least comforting. I was worried they wouldn't even give me the benefit of the doubt and allow me to explain.

One word of caution: don't lean too heavily on your family situation unless it's really exceptional and tragic. If your parents unexpectedly died in a car accident or something then, yeah, you've got a good reason for the drop off in grades. But if the family situation is more mundane (e.g., one of your parents got sick and you needed to help out), I'd think twice before making a big deal about it when explaining your grades.

One of the big red flags for a firm is when an associate seems like they can't handle the stresses of life. Working lawyers have to deal with marital problems, family illnesses, and other routine (but difficult) issues. You don't want to seem like someone who will fall apart when confronted by the challenges that almost everyone has to deal with in life.

Well, shit. You certainly hit the nail on the head. So then what do I do if I'm asked about it? Be upfront about the situation but make sure to steer clear of taking an "excuse-oriented" stance (which I would do anyways because ultimately nothing stopped me from succeeding but me)? I mean truth be told I knew my grades were going to dip (I just wasn't einven the right frame of mind). But I was absolutely surprised by some of my grades being low (one class in particular I thought I did particularly well and seeing as I'm now four semester's in, I thought I had a pretty good sense for what was good and what was pure shit).

Anonymous User wrote:

rpupkin wrote: One word of caution: don't lean too heavily on your family situation unless it's really exceptional and tragic. If your parents unexpectedly died in a car accident or something then, yeah, you've got a good reason for the drop off in grades. But if the family situation is more mundane (e.g., one of your parents got sick and you needed to help out), I'd think twice before making a big deal about it when explaining your grades.

One of the big red flags for a firm is when an associate seems like they can't handle the stresses of life. Working lawyers have to deal with marital problems, family illnesses, and other routine (but difficult) issues. You don't want to seem like someone who will fall apart when confronted by the challenges that almost everyone has to deal with in life.

Well, shit. You certainly hit the nail on the head. So then what do I do if I'm asked about it? Be upfront about the situation but make sure to steer clear of taking an "excuse-oriented" stance (which I would do anyways because ultimately nothing stopped me from succeeding but me)? I mean truth be told I knew my grades were going to dip (I just wasn't einven the right frame of mind). But I was absolutely surprised by some of my grades being low (one class in particular I thought I did particularly well and seeing as I'm now four semester's in, I thought I had a pretty good sense for what was good and what was pure shit).

Before I go on, I just want to reassure you that you're almost certainly fine no matter what. Your third semester grades are strong. Plus, Berkeley has that nice "P" safety net; it's not like you've got multiple B- grades sitting on your transcript. Finally, although there are exceptions, I really think that most big law firms barely care about 2L grades. Chances are that no one will ask you about your grades at all.

If someone does ask, however, I think it's fine if you mention your family situation as part of a larger explanation for the grade drop off. Just don't dwell on it too much, and, as you already understand, don't frame it like it's an excuse. It probably wouldn't hurt to add that you learned something about the importance of balancing family responsibilities with other commitments.

But, really, you're going to be fine. Do good work, relax, and enjoy your summer!

rpupkin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rpupkin wrote: One word of caution: don't lean too heavily on your family situation unless it's really exceptional and tragic. If your parents unexpectedly died in a car accident or something then, yeah, you've got a good reason for the drop off in grades. But if the family situation is more mundane (e.g., one of your parents got sick and you needed to help out), I'd think twice before making a big deal about it when explaining your grades.

One of the big red flags for a firm is when an associate seems like they can't handle the stresses of life. Working lawyers have to deal with marital problems, family illnesses, and other routine (but difficult) issues. You don't want to seem like someone who will fall apart when confronted by the challenges that almost everyone has to deal with in life.

Well, shit. You certainly hit the nail on the head. So then what do I do if I'm asked about it? Be upfront about the situation but make sure to steer clear of taking an "excuse-oriented" stance (which I would do anyways because ultimately nothing stopped me from succeeding but me)? I mean truth be told I knew my grades were going to dip (I just wasn't einven the right frame of mind). But I was absolutely surprised by some of my grades being low (one class in particular I thought I did particularly well and seeing as I'm now four semester's in, I thought I had a pretty good sense for what was good and what was pure shit).

Before I go on, I just want to reassure you that you're almost certainly fine no matter what. Your third semester grades are strong. Plus, Berkeley has that nice "P" safety net; it's not like you've got multiple B- grades sitting on your transcript. Finally, although there are exceptions, I really think that most big law firms barely care about 2L grades. Chances are that no one will ask you about your grades at all.

If someone does ask, however, I think it's fine if you mention your family situation as part of a larger explanation for the grade drop off. Just don't dwell on it too much, and, as you already understand, don't frame it like it's an excuse. It probably wouldn't hurt to add that you learned something about the importance of balancing family responsibilities with other commitments.

But, really, you're going to be fine. Do good work, relax, and enjoy your summer!

Hey thanks so much for the genuine response; I really appreciate you taking the time to give me the advice. My concern certainly arose out of not knowing how employers viewed those P's. Only having gotten 1 my first three semesters (man that sounded douchey), I wasn't sure if Ps were comparable C+'s, B-'s, B's, etc. My hope is that someone would pick up my transcript and immediately think "Well, something certainly happened here and this is just a fluke, freak occurrence". I'll keep your advice in mind should it come up (hopefully it doesn't).

Truth be told--I know the odds of it being an issue are small. Of course, that doesn't stop your mind from playing neuroticism chicken. I feel good about my work, I haven't missed any deadlines, and I've gelled with everyone I've met or worked with. But in my moments of grade freakouts, I'll try and remember your advice.