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I've noticed that the default response on this board seems to be "start mass mailing." Can someone explain the wisdom behind that?

It seems like it is akin to spamming with the hopes that one or two will hit some unknown target. If everyone is mass mailing, then it seems like it would be a smarter move to differentiate yourself some other way instead of being just another eggshell white resume paper.

Thoughts?

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Donkeykongmadness wrote:I've noticed that the default response on this board seems to be "start mass mailing." Can someone explain the wisdom behind that?

It seems like it is akin to spamming with the hopes that one or two will hit some unknown target. If everyone is mass mailing, then it seems like it would be a smarter move to differentiate yourself some other way instead of being just another eggshell white resume paper.

Thoughts?

Are you sure you won't need an extra 2 interviews?

Donkeykongmadness wrote:I've noticed that the default response on this board seems to be "start mass mailing." Can someone explain the wisdom behind that?

Cause you might get a jerb from a firm that doesn't go to your OCI.

Donkeykongmadness wrote: It seems like it is akin to spamming with the hopes that one or two will hit some unknown target.

Yes. It is like spam. The costs are minimal and the reward is potentially huge. Have you looked at your spam folder recently? Those emails get sent because it is a strategy that consistenl works in the aggregative.

Donkeykongmadness wrote: If everyone is mass mailing, then it seems like it would be a smarter move to differentiate yourself some other way instead of being just another eggshell white resume paper.

Thoughts?

The resume is how you differentiate yourself.

I'll probably be excommunicated from TLS for saying this, but I have a theory that the TLS-auto-mantra of 'start mass mailing' has over saturated the mass mail market to make it almost impossible to get an interview out of it without someone on the inside proactively picking your materials out and putting them at the top of the file.

Therefore, I would say purely blind mass mailing is a waste of time and effort unless it's combined with reaching out to attorneys or having some other sort of connection.

gnuwheels wrote:I'll probably be excommunicated from TLS for saying this, but I have a theory that the TLS-auto-mantra of 'start mass mailing' has over saturated the mass mail market to make it almost impossible to get an interview out of it without someone on the inside proactively picking your materials out and putting them at the top of the file.

Therefore, I would say purely blind mass mailing is a waste of time and effort unless it's combined with reaching out to attorneys or having some other sort of connection.

This is completely false. If your resume is strong you will get a lot of interest. I landed 8 callbacks through mass-mailing in east coast secondary markets within 90 minute drive of my hometown and got my job from it. Know at least 3 others in my class who landed summer gigs from mass-mailing. Factors that will help you stand out are T14, ties, good grades (obviously), substantial work experience, and advanced degrees related to your desired practice area.

Luck and timing will also help - all of the above referenced classmates landed gigs in October, presumably after some firms didn't get the yields they expected on their offers.

You can both mass mail and differentiate yourself.

For example, let's say you go to Columbia, but you are from Seattle or Texas. You would be absolutely stupid if you did not e-mail every single Washington and Texas firm, telling them: Dear Firm, I breathe Seattle but am going to school in Columbia and you guys do not come to Columbia OCI, can I please visit you for an interview????

That sort of an email is not just spam. Firms appreciate and understand that someone went to a top school, but wants to return to their hometown.

Landed multiple callbacks from blind mass mailing last year, and several more screeners. I also got a few screeners from contacting alumni. YMMV, but it is definitely not a waste of time.

I agree it's not a waste of time. Conversion rate may be lower than it used to but it still makes sense to do.

@OP: I mean what else are you gonna do if you want to work in biglaw? Cross your fingers and hope OCI works out?

Had 10 cbs my 2L year, and I think 6 were from mass mails

The problem is is that most of the 2Ls and 3Ls on here give shitty advice about mass mailing. Yes it makes sense to mass mail for almost anyone, but it makes more sense to take some time and write targeted cover letters than to just send your resume to 300 firms.

Plus at my school we don't get grades back until mid-July and journal decisions until the end of July. Why the fuck would I mass mail now?

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Yeah, mid or late July is what recruiting told me. I didn't mass mail but I don't think it was a thing several years ago.

Mass mailing leads to additional interviews, and having additional interviews improves your chances of getting a summer associate position. Until you have an offer, you should be doing everything to maximize your chances of getting one. There's no good reason not to mass mail.

For T14 students, if you're in a position where getting a job through OCI is likely, you're also likely to pick up several interviews through mass mailing. Those interviews could easily be the difference between getting an offer and not. Waiting until you strike out at OCI before mass mailing dozens of firms is foolish, because at that point, many of those firms will no longer be recruiting.

I have no problems with mass mailing or people doing whatever they need to do to get in front of employers. I'm just kind of wondering what the rationale is.

Follow-up question: Isn't the idea of getting as many offers as possible contributing to the problem? I understanding having 2 or 3 offers to choose from, but having half a dozen or more seems like you would just be holding spots that should go to someone else would appreciate. Doesn't this just make things worse for the borderline candidates who are struggling to find interviews & callbacks? I understand the need for mass mailing for secondary markets or for employers who didn't come to your school, but it seems to me that the better strategy should be to target firms that you are a good fit for and focus on those instead of inundating every firm with your resume.

It just doesn't seem very economically efficient for everyone to be hoarding as many interviews as possible. Sure, it's impossible to prevent people from defecting, but perhaps the advice should be more targeted.

If you think you're going to get a dozen offers out of OCI + massmailing, and further all the firms you would accept an offer at are attending your OCI, please don't massmail.

This is about the best decision for your career. Everyone should take every interview they might possibly want.

Donkeykongmadness wrote:I have no problems with mass mailing or people doing whatever they need to do to get in front of employers. I'm just kind of wondering what the rationale is.

Follow-up question: Isn't the idea of getting as many offers as possible contributing to the problem? I understanding having 2 or 3 offers to choose from, but having half a dozen or more seems like you would just be holding spots that should go to someone else would appreciate. Doesn't this just make things worse for the borderline candidates who are struggling to find interviews & callbacks? I understand the need for mass mailing for secondary markets or for employers who didn't come to your school, but it seems to me that the better strategy should be to target firms that you are a good fit for and focus on those instead of inundating every firm with your resume.

There's no "holding" spots. First, firms have a good idea of their yield when they make offers. Second, the NALP guidelines (in theory) prevent students from holding more than five offers open at a time.

Donkeykongmadness wrote:I have no problems with mass mailing or people doing whatever they need to do to get in front of employers. I'm just kind of wondering what the rationale is.

Follow-up question: Isn't the idea of getting as many offers as possible contributing to the problem? I understanding having 2 or 3 offers to choose from, but having half a dozen or more seems like you would just be holding spots that should go to someone else would appreciate. Doesn't this just make things worse for the borderline candidates who are struggling to find interviews & callbacks? I understand the need for mass mailing for secondary markets or for employers who didn't come to your school, but it seems to me that the better strategy should be to target firms that you are a good fit for and focus on those instead of inundating every firm with your resume.

NALP Principles and Standards Part V (A)(3) wrote:A candidate should not hold open more than five offers of employment at any one time. For each offer received that places a candidate over the offer limit, the candidate should, within one week of receipt of the excess offer, release an offer.

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Donkeykongmadness wrote:It just doesn't seem very economically efficient for everyone to be hoarding as many interviews as possible. Sure, it's impossible to prevent people from defecting, but perhaps the advice should be more targeted.

Perhaps the market shouldn't be so shitty

Donkeykongmadness wrote:I have no problems with mass mailing or people doing whatever they need to do to get in front of employers. I'm just kind of wondering what the rationale is.

Ummm.....to get...in front of...employers...

Donkeykongmadness wrote:I understand the need for mass mailing for secondary markets or for employers who didn't come to your school, but it seems to me that the better strategy should be to target firms that you are a good fit for and focus on those instead of inundating every firm with your resume.

smh, I hope you're trolling. How the hell do you know which firms you are a good fit for? What if the secondary market shuts you out and the firms don't like you? Well at least you didn't inundate the market and left more to go around for everyone else...so you should feel good about that.

Donkeykongmadness wrote:I have no problems with mass mailing or people doing whatever they need to do to get in front of employers. I'm just kind of wondering what the rationale is.

Follow-up question: Isn't the idea of getting as many offers as possible contributing to the problem? I understanding having 2 or 3 offers to choose from, but having half a dozen or more seems like you would just be holding spots that should go to someone else would appreciate. Doesn't this just make things worse for the borderline candidates who are struggling to find interviews & callbacks? I understand the need for mass mailing for secondary markets or for employers who didn't come to your school, but it seems to me that the better strategy should be to target firms that you are a good fit for and focus on those instead of inundating every firm with your resume.

Rising 2L so grain of salt, but my understanding is that offers are not a zero-sum game. Firms know they'll have a certain conversion rate (just like law school admissions) and over-offer knowing they'll get acceptances from a similar number of offerees as in years past. This doesn't mean there aren't a limited number of offers, but more than one person taking an interview slot won't affect whether you get one or not. Either you're qualified or you aren't.

The rationale is: get a job.

As for the economics (caveat: armchair economist with some training, but not a ton), it doesn't seem that inefficient from a matching perspective to have firms tell any candidates who are good enough that they'll have a job at the firm if they want it, and let the candidates decide where their best match is. In other words, we want the highest amount of mutual interest, and there's probably more disparity in candidate interest toward individual firms than vice versa (once you cross the threshold of qualified applicants). Candidates are going to be better at sorting on an individual level than firms, so we'd probably expect better fits through this method than one where firms gave out fewer offers with exploding limits (ie, if the ABA didn't mandate that offers stay open for 28 days or whatever the number is). Obviously better information could improve the quality of the matches, but structurally it seems to be not the worst option.

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rad lulz wrote:

DELG wrote:If you think you're going to get a dozen offers out of OCI + massmailing, and further all the firms you would accept an offer at are attending your OCI, please don't massmail.

I'd mass mail just in case OCI reveals you have a latent personality defect even w high grades

Idk bro sounds pretty confident