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So how's Weil doing now?

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/06/nationwi ... l-gotshal/

mvp99 wrote:So how's Weil doing now?

http://abovethelaw.com/2013/06/nationwi ... l-gotshal/

They are a debtor shop who haven't filed a ch. 11 case in ages. Seems they're struggling.

Talked to some people "in the know," and they basically confirmed this speculation that I've been hearing for the last few months. Would love to get some insights from people working there.

Didn't they kick a huge number of their top NYC restructuring people to the curb a couple years back? I don't know how that didn't cause them to suffer more in chambers/vault rankings.

Anonymous User wrote:Didn't they kick a huge number of their top NYC restructuring people to the curb a couple years back? I don't know how that didn't cause them to suffer more in chambers/vault rankings.

What are you talking about? Or who? What people?

Anonymous User wrote:Didn't they kick a huge number of their top NYC restructuring people to the curb a couple years back? I don't know how that didn't cause them to suffer more in chambers/vault rankings.

They brought over a ton of other people from other departments (ie litigation) to work on Lehman during the recession. If anything, this helped them keep their jobs while most firms were firing people during the recession. Once Lehman started winding down a lot of people were let go, but at least they got the extra years in biglaw before they had to jump ship.

I haven't heard of them letting people go who were in restructuring originally, and they are still hiring for their restructuring department--even though they are slow right now (at least compared to K&E, Skadden, and Jones Day).

Some of this info is stale. BK might be dead, but they're definitely hiring junior associates in M&A.

From what I understand, BK is slow for the entire industry. Weil has around 60 NY BK attorneys though, and the ~180 attorneys in each of NY Corp & Lit are busy (Corp is incredibly busy/swamped). The layoffs came mostly from BK due to Lehman's ending + the generally slow BK market.

Anonymous User wrote:From what I understand, BK is slow for the entire industry. Weil has around 60 NY BK attorneys though, and the ~180 attorneys in each of NY Corp & Lit are busy (Corp is incredibly busy/swamped). The layoffs came mostly from BK due to Lehman's ending + the generally slow BK market.

Not necessarily the entire industry-- K&E is pretty busy (see EFH). But I agree with the rest. When BK is down corp goes up. That's just how the cycle works.

I do think it's kind of troubling that Weil (whose claim to fame is debtor work) is losing out to K&E (and to a lesser extent Skadden and Jones Day). In a thread that's asking for what's going on with Weil, I think that information is certainly relevant.

It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:From what I understand, BK is slow for the entire industry. Weil has around 60 NY BK attorneys though, and the ~180 attorneys in each of NY Corp & Lit are busy (Corp is incredibly busy/swamped). The layoffs came mostly from BK due to Lehman's ending + the generally slow BK market.

Not necessarily the entire industry-- K&E is pretty busy (see EFH). But I agree with the rest. When BK is down corp goes up. That's just how the cycle works.

I do think it's kind of troubling that Weil (whose claim to fame is debtor work) is losing out to K&E (and to a lesser extent Skadden and Jones Day). In a thread that's asking for what's going on with Weil, I think that information is certainly relevant.

I guess what I mean by a slow bankruptcy industry is that the number of filings this year (and the last, and the one before that) is down by a great deal; and the sizes of the bankruptcies are also smaller for the most part. EFH is ~$40 bn in size compared to the ~$700 bn Lehman filing.

I don't think a lot has substantively changed as far as Weil's BKR team--I mean, I see them getting awards for their bankruptcy people--so I'm assuming that there was some reason outside of that for not getting the EFH filing? Maybe someone in EFH was tied to KE? So I don't view this news as a basis for Weil not being sought after for future debtor work. Or for a person interested in BK work to not join Weil's practice.

Is there a website where you can see who represents who in these larger bankruptcy filings?

lawyerwannabe wrote:Is there a website where you can see who represents who in these larger bankruptcy filings?

PACER

NYSprague wrote:It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

I was referencing the WaMu team getting the boot. But yes, that info is pretty stale. KE seems to be eating their restructuring lunch. Doesn't mean they're not doing fine as a firm but it does seem like they're not trying to be the restructuring shop they once were.

Anonymous User wrote:

NYSprague wrote:It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

I was referencing the WaMu team getting the boot. But yes, that info is pretty stale. KE seems to be eating their restructuring lunch. Doesn't mean they're not doing fine as a firm but it does seem like they're not trying to be the restructuring shop they once were.

K&E is winning out only because of the structure of the practice. Has nothing to do with respective calibers. And shouldn't be a bad sign for K&E to be winning out. They're basically just as good as Weil at this point.

Weil needs to focus on smaller BKs and building a pipeline for them, rather than salivating and waiting for the big ones. Weil obviously gets the big ones, but the small ones keep people busy and a group stable. K&E takes on the "smaller" BKs by virtue of its pipeline, and will also take the big ones when/if they come along. Just a different approach to business building.

zweitbester wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

NYSprague wrote:It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

I was referencing the WaMu team getting the boot. But yes, that info is pretty stale. KE seems to be eating their restructuring lunch. Doesn't mean they're not doing fine as a firm but it does seem like they're not trying to be the restructuring shop they once were.

K&E is winning out only because of the structure of the practice. Has nothing to do with respective calibers. And shouldn't be a bad sign for K&E to be winning out. They're basically just as good as Weil at this point.

Weil needs to focus on smaller BKs and building a pipeline for them, rather than salivating and waiting for the big ones. Weil obviously gets the big ones, but the small ones keep people busy and a group stable. K&E takes on the "smaller" BKs by virtue of its pipeline, and will also take the big ones when/if they come along. Just a different approach to business building.

I think anyone considering bidding on Weil should feel safe for the future few years they will be working there. If you are concerned because of one case, then don't bid. If you are concerned about Boston, I think you should look at how that was handled compared to other firms.
It is a huge advantage if you lose your job to have a firm publicly state it was a business decision and help back you to get other jobs.
(One big problem summers no offered from Winston had was that the firm wouldn't help them or admit it was part of their financial issues. Not the same, just a comparison.)

NYSprague wrote:

zweitbester wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

NYSprague wrote:It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

I was referencing the WaMu team getting the boot. But yes, that info is pretty stale. KE seems to be eating their restructuring lunch. Doesn't mean they're not doing fine as a firm but it does seem like they're not trying to be the restructuring shop they once were.

K&E is winning out only because of the structure of the practice. Has nothing to do with respective calibers. And shouldn't be a bad sign for K&E to be winning out. They're basically just as good as Weil at this point.

Weil needs to focus on smaller BKs and building a pipeline for them, rather than salivating and waiting for the big ones. Weil obviously gets the big ones, but the small ones keep people busy and a group stable. K&E takes on the "smaller" BKs by virtue of its pipeline, and will also take the big ones when/if they come along. Just a different approach to business building.

I think anyone considering bidding on Weil should feel safe for the future few years they will be working there. If you are concerned because of one case, then don't bid. If you are concerned about Boston, I think you should look at how that was handled compared to other firms.
It is a huge advantage if you lose your job to have a firm publicly state it was a business decision and help back you to get other jobs.
(One big problem summers no offered from Winston had was that the firm wouldn't help them or admit it was part of their financial issues. Not the same, just a comparison.)

...kind of a false dilemma.

zweitbester wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

NYSprague wrote:It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

I was referencing the WaMu team getting the boot. But yes, that info is pretty stale. KE seems to be eating their restructuring lunch. Doesn't mean they're not doing fine as a firm but it does seem like they're not trying to be the restructuring shop they once were.

K&E is winning out only because of the structure of the practice. Has nothing to do with respective calibers. And shouldn't be a bad sign for K&E to be winning out. They're basically just as good as Weil at this point.

Weil needs to focus on smaller BKs and building a pipeline for them, rather than salivating and waiting for the big ones. Weil obviously gets the big ones, but the small ones keep people busy and a group stable. K&E takes on the "smaller" BKs by virtue of its pipeline, and will also take the big ones when/if they come along. Just a different approach to business building.

I don't think they're sitting around. I mean, I'm sure there's still stuff going on re: American Airlines and MF Global filings, and they do creditor work as well (see FGIC for the Detroit BK). I think the creditor engagements would fall under the smaller stuff, and those just don't get as much publicity.

I honestly have no clue how those Chambers awards are handed out, but they just won the bankruptcy one again last month? http://www.chambersandpartners.com/cham ... lence-2014

I would be careful bidding in Boston, only because there are very few partners. I would much rather work at a less prestigious Boston firm with more partners. You are more likely to get better experience. In small offices, if you do not mesh well with 1 personality, you might be out of luck. More partners mean more flexibility in finding a good working relationship. For example, at my firm, half of the corp associates love working with a particular, difficult partner. I can't stand working with him and neither can the other half of the associates. If we were a smaller office, I'd be screwed. A lot can come down to personal preferences. Better to have more potential work flows. In my experience, most people do not like working across offices or view associates in non-hub offices as second class associates... But I know this varies firm to firm.

I don't understand about false dilemma, but I meant its better to have support, not that anyone is getting laid off.
Most people will bid weil because of large class size and lower grade selectivity.
The bankruptcy practice is still the best as far as I know and corporate is very solid.
I am not sure what the question is here?

NYSprague wrote:I don't understand about false dilemma, but I meant its better to have support, not that anyone is getting laid off.
Most people will bid weil because of large class size and lower grade selectivity.

The false dilemma is getting either laid off publicly or fired and not having it disclosed that you were laid off for reasons not related to your performance.

There are many firms out there not doing either right now, including many of Weil's BK competitors.

So yes, all things being equal, not a wise choice to choose another firm that just fires people for economic reasons without saying so publicly over Weil.

But, all things being equal, probably not a wise choice to go to Weil if you can go to a firm that does neither.

I'm surprised I have to explain the false dilemma.

Anonymous User wrote:

zweitbester wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

NYSprague wrote:It's fair to talk about which firm is doing which case. But people "in the know" and hints of "large numbers" without context is impossible to respond to.

I was referencing the WaMu team getting the boot. But yes, that info is pretty stale. KE seems to be eating their restructuring lunch. Doesn't mean they're not doing fine as a firm but it does seem like they're not trying to be the restructuring shop they once were.

K&E is winning out only because of the structure of the practice. Has nothing to do with respective calibers. And shouldn't be a bad sign for K&E to be winning out. They're basically just as good as Weil at this point.

Weil needs to focus on smaller BKs and building a pipeline for them, rather than salivating and waiting for the big ones. Weil obviously gets the big ones, but the small ones keep people busy and a group stable. K&E takes on the "smaller" BKs by virtue of its pipeline, and will also take the big ones when/if they come along. Just a different approach to business building.

I don't think they're sitting around. I mean, I'm sure there's still stuff going on re: American Airlines and MF Global filings, and they do creditor work as well (see FGIC for the Detroit BK). I think the creditor engagements would fall under the smaller stuff, and those just don't get as much publicity.

I honestly have no clue how those Chambers awards are handed out, but they just won the bankruptcy one again last month? http://www.chambersandpartners.com/cham ... lence-2014

I never said they're sitting around (though a bunch of them did get fired, didn't they?), just that they don't have the pipeline for "middle market" restructurings that'll keep a group busy when the mega restructurings aren't coming along at a given point in time. The work is less glamorous since you can't say you're handling AA's bankruptcy, but it provides more stability and you still get the glamorous work every once in a while (i.e., Sbarro).

zweitbester wrote:

NYSprague wrote:I don't understand about false dilemma, but I meant its better to have support, not that anyone is getting laid off.
Most people will bid weil because of large class size and lower grade selectivity.

The false dilemma is getting either laid off publicly or fired and not having it disclosed that you were laid off for reasons not related to your performance.

There are many firms out there not doing either right now, including many of Weil's BK competitors.

So yes, all things being equal, not a wise choice to choose another firm that just fires people for economic reasons without saying so publicly over Weil.

But, all things being equal, probably not a wise choice to go to Weil if you can go to a firm that does neither.

I'm surprised I have to explain the false dilemma.

I don't see it that way. But Weil is a great firm, if someone is so worried, then don't bid. They never have trouble filling the class.
Bidding New York firms with large classes is the best way to be sure you get a job.

NYSprague wrote:

zweitbester wrote:

NYSprague wrote:I don't understand about false dilemma, but I meant its better to have support, not that anyone is getting laid off.
Most people will bid weil because of large class size and lower grade selectivity.

The false dilemma is getting either laid off publicly or fired and not having it disclosed that you were laid off for reasons not related to your performance.

There are many firms out there not doing either right now, including many of Weil's BK competitors.

So yes, all things being equal, not a wise choice to choose another firm that just fires people for economic reasons without saying so publicly over Weil.

But, all things being equal, probably not a wise choice to go to Weil if you can go to a firm that does neither.

I'm surprised I have to explain the false dilemma.

I don't see it that way. But Weil is a great firm, if someone is so worried, then don't bid. They never have trouble filling the class.
Bidding New York firms with large classes is the best way to be sure you get a job.

All true. Everyone wants dat V10 statuss.

zweitbester wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

zweitbester wrote:K&E is winning out only because of the structure of the practice. Has nothing to do with respective calibers. And shouldn't be a bad sign for K&E to be winning out. They're basically just as good as Weil at this point.

Weil needs to focus on smaller BKs and building a pipeline for them, rather than salivating and waiting for the big ones. Weil obviously gets the big ones, but the small ones keep people busy and a group stable. K&E takes on the "smaller" BKs by virtue of its pipeline, and will also take the big ones when/if they come along. Just a different approach to business building.

I don't think they're sitting around. I mean, I'm sure there's still stuff going on re: American Airlines and MF Global filings, and they do creditor work as well (see FGIC for the Detroit BK). I think the creditor engagements would fall under the smaller stuff, and those just don't get as much publicity.

I honestly have no clue how those Chambers awards are handed out, but they just won the bankruptcy one again last month? http://www.chambersandpartners.com/cham ... lence-2014

I never said they're sitting around (though a bunch of them did get fired, didn't they?), just that they don't have the pipeline for "middle market" restructurings that'll keep a group busy when the mega restructurings aren't coming along at a given point in time. The work is less glamorous since you can't say you're handling AA's bankruptcy, but it provides more stability and you still get the glamorous work every once in a while (i.e., Sbarro).

Laid off, yeah, with 6 mon. severance. And I'm pretty sure anyone laid off in BKR was non-junior + had plenty of exit options, which is not what Winston, Latham, etc. have done. Heck, I hear that DPW lays off/fires 5% every year for performance.

It's unclear to me whether Weil does or doesn't have the middle market pipeline, just that they are typically the firm picked for the larger/largest engagements. But still taking your point as an assumption, I guess we just have different views as to what "winning out" means.

Does anyone know how their Dallas/Houston offices are faring after all of the departures last year? Seemed like their Houston office was effectively dead.