Billables in Secondary Market Forum

[Anonymous User]

Exactly how much less demanding (in terms of billable hours) are firms in secondary markets (mainly thinking texas) than NYC firms? Comparing a satellite office of a national firm to a big firm based in NYC. Is it really a significant difference or is the difference overstated on these forums?

[Anonymous User]

Not sure for satellites. Most firms hq'd in Texas don't think of themselves as being in a secondary market. I know that the Big-2 (BB & VE) usually require about 2,000 to stay afloat, which I don't think is all that different from NYC firms.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure for satellites. Most firms hq'd in Texas don't think of themselves as being in a secondary market. I know that the Big-2 (BB & VE) usually require about 2,000 to stay afloat, which I don't think is all that different from NYC firms.

Do you think associates at these firms routinely put out 2700 hour years, though? Those are the kind of hours I'm trying to avoid.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure for satellites. Most firms hq'd in Texas don't think of themselves as being in a secondary market. I know that the Big-2 (BB & VE) usually require about 2,000 to stay afloat, which I don't think is all that different from NYC firms.

Weird anti-Fulbright trolling. Also, I'm pretty sure associates at NYC firms bill well over 2,000 hours. Texas hours seem slightly more reasonable, though you obviously still know you're working biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

the billable requirements for satellite offices are generally listed on NALP so you can check there. they are almost always the same across offices, but keep in mind that the people in nyc might still end up working more. If the requirement is 2000, the satellite offices may just bill like 2050, but the nyc associates might have more work so they might end up going way over and billing like 2500 or something. usually the bigger cities have more business, and if there is business you are going to have to work. talking to my friends that work in nyc and the firms i interviewed at, it seems to be the case that as a general rule they work more than the satellites.

The billable requirement at A&P is something like 2100 across the board, and i remember when i went in for my callback to A&P in Denver it was the same requirement as the A&P in D.C. Same with all the big firms I had CBs with in Denver (hogan lovells, Patton Boggs, MoFo).

[20160810]

I'm not sure how you could possibly be hoping for any answer other than "it varies."

[Anonymous User]

yeah i know it depends but was curious if anyone had made the transfer or worked in a firm that has offices in places like TX and could at least give an anecdote. Basically just ttrying to avoid 2700 hour type years

[kalvano]

I worked in a Texas regional Biglaw office for a while. 2700 was rare, based on what I saw. It would have been one of the top 1 or 2 associates. But 2050-2250 was around average, depending on practice group.

If you work at one of the big Texas firms (V&E, HB, etc.), you'll work a bit more.

[Anonymous User]

Big-2 (BB & VE)

Statement of Fact.

Do you think associates at these firms routinely put out 2700 hour years, though? Those are the kind of hours I'm trying to avoid.

As I said, I'm not sure about satellite offices, but for the firms hq'd down here most of their work originates in Houston or Dallas you'll easily hit 21-2200 hours. 2700 happens but it's not routine.

[Frayed Knot]

I believe that the real hours difference between major markets and secondary markets is in total hours, not billable hours. That is, secondary market lawyers seem to be able to bill more efficiently/bill a greater percentage of total time.

The difference in efficiency seems to come from the greater amount of "hurry up to wait" in NYC—so many projects have to be done "tonight" that lawyers work late and then show up the next morning without anything (billable) to work on. In a secondary market, the same type of assignment might have a due date 3 days out, so there's always something to work on when you get in the next morning and much less dead time at the office.

But I'm a 2L, so this is just based on summering in different markets (and talking to lots of lawyers). Does anyone have any thoughts of billing efficiency in different markets?

[gk101]

I believe that the real hours difference between major markets and secondary markets is in total hours, not billable hours. That is, secondary market lawyers seem to be able to bill more efficiently/bill a greater percentage of total time.

The difference in efficiency seems to come from the greater amount of "hurry up to wait" in NYC—so many projects have to be done "tonight" that lawyers work late and then show up the next morning without anything (billable) to work on. In a secondary market, the same type of assignment might have a due date 3 days out, so there's always something to work on when you get in the next morning and much less dead time at the office.

But I'm a 2L, so this is just based on summering in different markets (and talking to lots of lawyers). Does anyone have any thoughts of billing efficiency in different markets?

I don't know about this. Depends on the practice group , but the quick deadline are dictated primarily by asshole partners (followed by asshole clients) and not so much based on the city. It may just be true that there are a lot more asshole partners in NYC/DC etc. Also, work that has to be done "tonight" is just as billable as work you would do the following day (at least until the partner conveniently forgets to tell you which matter you should bill your time to)

On a personal note, I am more efficient on assignments with quicker turnarounds than ones where I have a week or so to get to them. The work just seems to expand to fill the time I have to finish the assignment.

[thesealocust]

I believe that the real hours difference between major markets and secondary markets is in total hours, not billable hours.

. . .

I'm a 2L

dawwwww he thinks he's people

[09042014]

NYC might be more efficient since they are busier.

[thesealocust]

NYC might be more efficient since they are busier.

My experience has been that long hours and efficiency are strongly correlated.

If I need to be in at 8:30 and can't leave until 11:30, the odds are high the whole day flew by in triage / furious work. If I stroll in at 10:00 and leave at 6:00, I probably spent a hell of a lot more time at the water-cooler.

Everyone bitches about "nothing until 5:00 then a new project that had to get done that night" because it sucks, but it's much more rare than "nothing until 5:00 and nothing after 5:00" or "lots of stuff before and after 5:00." (no points for guessing which of those two is more common).

[de5igual]

First year transactional attorney in Texas.

It seems like the overall number of hours in Texas is lower than in NYC. The minimum billable is the same as everywhere, but here, you'll find that most everyone hovers right above that minimum with a few exceptions going well above it. It seems like in NYC, everyone goes (and is expected to go) way above that minimum.