Working 40 Hours No Pay - Need Advice Forum

[dixiecupdrinking]

To be fair, this is really shitty and the fact that people think it's normal or acceptable is part of the problem. That said, it's normal and kind of expected.

I understand why people say it's shitty for law firms to do this, but OP's working for the government. It's not nearly as big a problem as you seem to think.

Working for free still sucks, and unpaid interns probably keep these offices from hiring more actual employees. It's just not illegal when it's a gov agency. The private firms that do this are all breaking the law.

[TooOld4This]

To be fair, this is really shitty and the fact that people think it's normal or acceptable is part of the problem. That said, it's normal and kind of expected.

I understand why people say it's shitty for law firms to do this, but OP's working for the government. It's not nearly as big a problem as you seem to think.

Working for free still sucks, and unpaid interns probably keep these offices from hiring more actual employees. It's just not illegal when it's a gov agency. The private firms that do this are all breaking the law.

For legal interns, no. Summer jobs for legal interns do not lighten the burden of the organization. In fact, they usually add to it. Coming up with discrete projects that are at an appropriate skill level and then bringing the person up to speed in both facts and law is time consuming. If the organization cares about making the work meaningful, it is even harder. Work product is often not usable and even when it is, it usually could have been done by someone else in less time. No one is not hiring more staff because of a summer intern.

I agree that interns should be paid, even in public service positions, not so much because of the value they bring to the organization, but because working for free is a luxury most cannot afford and internships are a pathway to employment (either directly or indirectly).

[rickgrimes69]

10/10 trole well done OP, top kek all around

11/10 if you are real

[LRGhost]

To be fair, this is really shitty and the fact that people think it's normal or acceptable is part of the problem. That said, it's normal and kind of expected.

I understand why people say it's shitty for law firms to do this, but OP's working for the government. It's not nearly as big a problem as you seem to think.

Working for free still sucks, and unpaid interns probably keep these offices from hiring more actual employees. It's just not illegal when it's a gov agency. The private firms that do this are all breaking the law.

For legal interns, no. Summer jobs for legal interns do not lighten the burden of the organization. In fact, they usually add to it. Coming up with discrete projects that are at an appropriate skill level and then bringing the person up to speed in both facts and law is time consuming. If the organization cares about making the work meaningful, it is even harder. Work product is often not usable and even when it is, it usually could have been done by someone else in less time. No one is not hiring more staff because of a summer intern.

I agree that interns should be paid, even in public service positions, not so much because of the value they bring to the organization, but because working for free is a luxury most cannot afford and internships are a pathway to employment (either directly or indirectly).

That's the thing -- I'm not sure that internships are a path to employment. So you have people giving away free labor under the guise of hopefully getting a job afterwards except that the party with all the power knows that a job is likely not forthcoming. Unpaid, FT internships are bad because it makes it normal to expect students to work for free when previously they'd get paid. And like you said, most people cannot afford to work for free. Assume OP needs to pay bills, it's a 1L internship. It'd be the same resume like if he took a PT gig and waited tables.

[A. Nony Mouse]

In government/non-profit, I think interning actually does often lead to employment. Everyone I know who's a DA or PD or doing legal aid in my law school state interned there during law school, and my law school internship probably helped in getting the job I have now. The people I know working in local government also mostly interned there during school. It's not necessarily impossible to get those jobs without interning, but it's still a big boost.

That's apart from the issue of whether the internships should be paid, of course.

[dixiecupdrinking]

To be fair, this is really shitty and the fact that people think it's normal or acceptable is part of the problem. That said, it's normal and kind of expected.

I understand why people say it's shitty for law firms to do this, but OP's working for the government. It's not nearly as big a problem as you seem to think.

Working for free still sucks, and unpaid interns probably keep these offices from hiring more actual employees. It's just not illegal when it's a gov agency. The private firms that do this are all breaking the law.

For legal interns, no. Summer jobs for legal interns do not lighten the burden of the organization. In fact, they usually add to it. Coming up with discrete projects that are at an appropriate skill level and then bringing the person up to speed in both facts and law is time consuming. If the organization cares about making the work meaningful, it is even harder. Work product is often not usable and even when it is, it usually could have been done by someone else in less time. No one is not hiring more staff because of a summer intern.

I agree that interns should be paid, even in public service positions, not so much because of the value they bring to the organization, but because working for free is a luxury most cannot afford and internships are a pathway to employment (either directly or indirectly).

Agreed that interns aren't replacing people on a 1:1 basis but I definitely did things as an unpaid intern at a non-profit than an attorney would have had to do otherwise. Drafting affidavits, reviewing records, researching legal issues, outlining briefs, etc. I'm sure most of my work product kind of sucked, but on the other hand, it was probably better than some first-year attorneys would have done.