Whether to apply for credit for judicial 'internship' Forum

[Anonymous User]

So I secured an internship with a Federal District judge (with no help from my career office mind you) and now I'm trying to decide whether I should apply to have this covered under my school's externship program to get credit.

Leaving aside the fact that I'll be shelling out money for credit hours and whether this is worth it or not, what I'm wondering is what the professional advantages/disadvantages are of a judicial 'internship' vs. 'externship'. It seems like externships (at least around here) are looked upon as pretty mediocre since schools are essentially getting an "in" for you with a judge and because you're getting credit, might be deemed a more "academic" experience.

The thoughts I have about it are essentially this: Electing not to apply for credit for the internship, I'd be able to go into OCI and discuss the fact that I pursued the internship on my own, without the sway of the career office, and because I'm not receiving credit, it's a more "professional experience".

Maybe I'm over thinking this and the only real question is monetary (i.e. whether it's worth it to pay my school to work for free for someone else). I imagine some opinions will state as much, but I'm not so much interested in hearing about the mediocrity of internships and externships, more so whether I stand to substantively gain/lose any professional advantage by choosing not to apply for credit.

Thanks for responses in advance.

[NorCalLaw]

Is this over the summer? If so, there's probably not much point in taking it for credit and paying out additional cash unless it's part of an elaborate plan to graduate early or protect your GPA somehow. Employers will look at the experience the same either way. You could even list it as an "externship" or "internship" to your heart's content, frankly. No one will be more or less impressed one way or the other.

And yes, you are definitely overthinking it. This choice should be about whether you want/need to pay for credit; nothing else is really going to change because employers care about the content of the experience, not the name of the experience.

[NotMyRealName09]

Too many words. For credit means you pay for ungraded credits to work with a judge. This means less chance for a negative grade to drop your gpa. Do these as much as possible. I did two judicial externships (fed dist as well as fed appeals). Just think - one (or two) less classes and no impact on grade, plus you learn something.

DO IT

Edit - I should be clear, you're going to pay for law school credits. Why not pay for some that are ungraded, meaning you have to take less graded classes, meaning better chance to have a higher gpa.

How is paying for a judicial externship for credit ever bad?

[A. Nony Mouse]

You are overthinking. No one will regard an internship as different in any way from an externship - nor should they, since you'll do the same work (except schools often require some kind of report on your experience for an externship, but the work you do for the judge won't be any different at all). Also, there's no assumption that because you get school credit, the school got you the position (but neither is there any value in touting the "initiative" required to get the position without your school's help, because that's pretty illusory, too). Decide based on costs and the judge's preference (if they have one) and credits and so on, not on the label.

[JoeFish]

I externed for a District Judge the summer after 1L. They made it very clear that they absolutely would not and could not take me if I wasn't getting school credit, because, as they understood it, it was literally illegal for them to let me do work for them without getting either credit or money.

I don't know the laws about unpaid internships, but I'd make sure this isn't a problem. At the very least, do as Mouse says and see if the judge has a preference.

[Anonymous User]

Is this over the summer? If so, there's probably not much point in taking it for credit and paying out additional cash unless it's part of an elaborate plan to graduate early or protect your GPA somehow. Employers will look at the experience the same either way. You could even list it as an "externship" or "internship" to your heart's content, frankly. No one will be more or less impressed one way or the other.

And yes, you are definitely overthinking it. This choice should be about whether you want/need to pay for credit; nothing else is really going to change because employers care about the content of the experience, not the name of the experience.

OP here.

Sorry, should have clarified, yes it is over the summer. Should also clarify I am a 1L. And I figured this would be the consensus, but didn't know if TLS's view on externships was the same for judicial internships. Thanks for the feedback.

Too many words. For credit means you pay for ungraded credits to work with a judge. This means less chance for a negative grade to drop your gpa. Do these as much as possible. I did two judicial externships (fed dist as well as fed appeals). Just think - one (or two) less classes and no impact on grade, plus you learn something.

DO IT

Edit - I should be clear, you're going to pay for law school credits. Why not pay for some that are ungraded, meaning you have to take less graded classes, meaning better chance to have a higher gpa.

How is paying for a judicial externship for credit ever bad?

My understanding is that the extra credit only really comes in handy for 3L year, by which time protecting your GPA is not really an issue. You want as many Black Letter Law classes during 2L to prepare for your summer job and also to offset journal and clinics. But theoretically I guess you are right, I just feel like it's paying "extra" since you're paying the same tuition whether you take 12 or 18 (I think is the cap at my school) credits, and by the time this "protection" kicks in, your GPA doesn't really need protecting.

This also might be predicated on a complete misunderstanding of how important GPA is at graduation.

I externed for a District Judge the summer after 1L. They made it very clear that they absolutely would not and could not take me if I wasn't getting school credit, because, as they understood it, it was literally illegal for them to let me do work for them without getting either credit or money.

I don't know the laws about unpaid internships, but I'd make sure this isn't a problem. At the very least, do as Mouse says and see if the judge has a preference.

Ya, I had to sign something that basically said I acknowledged I was working sans pay. I haven't approached the judge about credit, but I doubt it would be an issue.

[2012LawGrad]

I externed for a District Judge the summer after 1L. They made it very clear that they absolutely would not and could not take me if I wasn't getting school credit, because, as they understood it, it was literally illegal for them to let me do work for them without getting either credit or money.

I don't know the laws about unpaid internships, but I'd make sure this isn't a problem. At the very least, do as Mouse says and see if the judge has a preference.

Same policy in my chambers, and for the reason you stated (law clerk to fed. dist. judge here).

[TooOld4This]

Internship and externship are not terms of art. Some schools and people have strong opinions on what the differences between the two are, but you will find there is no agreement on this, so you are worrying about a distinction that probably won't even be noticed by whomever reads your resume.

Paying for the credits is a crazy waste of money. Your tuition won't go down when you take a lighter load later and you won't graduate earlier. Only take it as a class if you are required.