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Hello,

1L here. At this point I have only been offered an RA position with a professor that specializes in corporate law. I would be helping out with a book he is writing [researching more than editing] and also would be helping out with an article.

Will employers look upon doing a RA position with a professor for the entire summer as bad?
Should I look at splitting the summer somewhere else?

Thanks for the advice!!

It's neutral if you're talking about firms. Split somewhere else if you want to work somewhere else (don't split if you don't want to work somewhere else). If you're going after something that cares about dedication (e.g. DA/PD) then you should split with something that shows your dedication to that type of work.

I have done hiring for my small firm and now for my mid-sized firm. I would not count a summer spent as an RA as any sort of job experience. Some may argue with me on this - but I just wouldn't. Most practicing lawyers (especially those outside of biglaw), know that law school is a waste of time and that most of what you learn is irrelevant. To me, spending time researching with a professor stuck in the ivory tower would not equate to actual experience. I'd place it up there with studying abroad for the summer.

I RAd and did fine at OCI. Was asked about (and to defend) my professor's writing more than I would have liked since the prof and I think differently but as long as you consider what to say at OCI in advance you will be fine.

Edit- I have several friends who RAd as well, none of which struggled at OCI.

reasonable_man wrote:I have done hiring for my small firm and now for my mid-sized firm. I would not count a summer spent as an RA as any sort of job experience. Some may argue with me on this - but I just wouldn't. Most practicing lawyers (especially those outside of biglaw), know that law school is a waste of time and that most of what you learn is irrelevant. To me, spending time researching with a professor stuck in the ivory tower would not equate to actual experience. I'd place it up there with studying abroad for the summer.

BigLaw doesn't care. I guess maybe if your gunning for that small law though?

It can be a very good thing if you get to know the prof and you need a reference in the future.

I'm only RAing for the summer as well and was/am nervous how it looks but anecdotally at least it doesn't seem to matter for OCI. At least that's what I'm hoping. I was basically going to say I learned a lot, got better at research, and honesty couldn't afford to go somewhere else for something that wasn't paid and the research thing pays hourly which is still something lol.

Anonymous User wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:I have done hiring for my small firm and now for my mid-sized firm. I would not count a summer spent as an RA as any sort of job experience. Some may argue with me on this - but I just wouldn't. Most practicing lawyers (especially those outside of biglaw), know that law school is a waste of time and that most of what you learn is irrelevant. To me, spending time researching with a professor stuck in the ivory tower would not equate to actual experience. I'd place it up there with studying abroad for the summer.

BigLaw doesn't care. I guess maybe if your gunning for that small law though?

I'd personally disagree with this. While I have yet to go through OCI i get a different feeling from hiring partners from BigLaw when talking to them on campus, or via ones who are family friends. If you do something worthwhile and can talk about your RA experience with genuine interest, i think you'd be okay. If you generate the feeling that the only reason you took it is b/c you couldn't land anything else, I think you may be in trouble.

When I was deciding between summer options it was between half summer at a firm, company's GC office in my target market, Small firm, RA, or Fortune 10 GC office in major market. Every hiring partner I spoke to about the option told me to take the Fortune 10 opportunity even though outside my target market b/c it will make my resume stand out. When you're neck and neck with other people (grades, school, personality), it seems like the firm will give deference to someone who takes the more impressive summer position. Now i'm not sure when the summer spot comes into play in that equation, but to say they don't care I think would be a misconception.

OP here.

Thanks for the advice guys. My goal is to work for a mid-big size law firm not in the market where I go to school. I just found out today that I was offered a summer blogging position for my school's IP journal. Therefore, I would now be doing both the RA and blogging.

I could possibly try to get a more "legal" position for the summer as well. However, is the amount of work you do in the summer make up for lack of "prestige" for a 1L job?

And as a side note, when should you start networking for the 2L summer job search? I know I have a great interest in going to another market and wanted to know when to get the ball rolling on that?

.

rad lulz wrote: Last summer

?...

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote: Last summer

?...

You should have started contacting people in that market last summer. Before school.

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote: Last summer

?...

You should have started contacting people in that market last summer. Before school.

Either that or you should have been networking through 1L. 1Ls underestimate the value of networking. The few 1Ls who do network stand out because most 1Ls are worried about school.

You should try and find something practical to do in addition to the RA position. It's good to be an RA but it's not really a job. Keep looking!

I am in a similar position (except it's my 2L summer). If all else fails, try and volunteer for legal aid or something like that, just get something on your resume that involves real work.

I was an RA my 1L summer and found it to be helpful during OCI. Many of the interviewers were alums who had taken courses from the professor I worked for and it made for a good conversation starter and an easy way to establish commonality. OCI results did not seem to suffer either.

RA'd during 1L summer b/c I couldn't afford to work for a judge for free.

No one cared during interviews and questions about it, when asked, were generic. Did fine.

..

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote: Last summer

?...

You should have started contacting people in that market last summer. Before school.

Why does no one get this...


OP. What level of school are you at. This matters. greatly.

Also, to those that say that biglaw doesn't care, I respectfully disagree. My prior firm (small firm) were x-biglaw attorneys and my credentials and clerking positions during LS were very important to them in my interview (and I was hired by this firm after practicing law for a year already). Also, my current firm (large marked mid-law with multiple bi-costal offices), would care very much about summer work experience 1L and I know for a fact that a resume with an RA position (instead of legit summer work) would probably not make it out of the HR dept to a hiring partner.

reasonable_man wrote:

rad lulz wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

rad lulz wrote: Last summer

?...

You should have started contacting people in that market last summer. Before school.

Why does no one get this...


OP. What level of school are you at. This matters. greatly.

Also, to those that say that biglaw doesn't care, I respectfully disagree. My prior firm (small firm) were x-biglaw attorneys and my credentials and clerking positions during LS were very important to them in my interview (and I was hired by this firm after practicing law for a year already). Also, my current firm (large marked mid-law with multiple bi-costal offices), would care very much about summer work experience 1L and I know for a fact that a resume with an RA position (instead of legit summer work) would probably not make it out of the HR dept to a hiring partner.

your anecdotes about the hiring practices of small and midlaw don't support your proposition about the hiring practices of biglaw

My firm is on the cusp of biglaw and frankly, I feel comfortable commenting. An RA position may carry some weight in some places but for most, it's meaningless filler.

BigLaw is much more school and grade focused, so summer experience matters less. However, I agree that RA positions are near the bottom of 1L experience.

Anonymous User wrote: I'd personally disagree with this. While I have yet to go through OCI

Stopped here.

TooOld4This wrote:BigLaw is much more school and grade focused, so summer experience matters less. However, I agree that RA positions are near the bottom of 1L experience.

Yea I mean I really don't get why people are fighting this so hard. RA "experience" is useless and will impress no one. At best its a wash and at worst its a strike against you. Lets pretend for a second that the person making the hiring decision isn't turned off by it, which is the best case scenario, its highly unlikely that its going to be a positive attribute of a resume. Once again, I said it before and I'll say it again, an RA position is about as worthless as studying abroad during a 1L summer. If it were me, I'd be pushing hard for a real summer job. With the state of biglaw, any 1L that thinks that biglaw is a given (assuming non HYS), is delusional. You have to be prepared for the strong possibility that biglaw won't be an option. If biglaw is not an option and you're hunting smaller employers for your 2L summer, you're gonna want a real job on your resume during your 1L summer (not a position where you hunted obscure research points for a law review article that no one is ever going to read anyway).

reasonable_man wrote:

TooOld4This wrote:BigLaw is much more school and grade focused, so summer experience matters less. However, I agree that RA positions are near the bottom of 1L experience.

Yea I mean I really don't get why people are fighting this so hard. RA "experience" is useless and will impress no one. At best its a wash and at worst its a strike against you. Lets pretend for a second that the person making the hiring decision isn't turned off by it, which is the best case scenario, its highly unlikely that its going to be a positive attribute of a resume. Once again, I said it before and I'll say it again, an RA position is about as worthless as studying abroad during a 1L summer. If it were me, I'd be pushing hard for a real summer job. With the state of biglaw, any 1L that thinks that biglaw is a given (assuming non HYS), is delusional. You have to be prepared for the strong possibility that biglaw won't be an option. If biglaw is not an option and you're hunting smaller employers for your 2L summer, you're gonna want a real job on your resume during your 1L summer (not a position where you hunted obscure research points for a law review article that no one is ever going to read anyway).

no one is saying that that RA jobs are particularly desirable. Actual biglaw firms (maybe not the "cusp" or whatever that's supposed to mean) just don't care what you do 1L year, as evidenced by the OVERWHELMING number of people who take RA positions 1L year and get 2L SAs.

Edit: nvm, for some reason I thought OP was asking about biglaw in particular. I guess we've found middle ground then, which is that biglaw doesn't seem to care about an RA position, but once you start looking at smaller, more focused employers they want to know that your 1L summer job indicates that you'd be a good fit. However, even so, there are probably some RA positions that would fill this role on your resume (depending entirely on who you RA for).

reasonable_man wrote:
Yea I mean I really don't get why people are fighting this so hard. RA "experience" is useless and will impress no one. At best its a wash and at worst its a strike against you. Lets pretend for a second that the person making the hiring decision isn't turned off by it, which is the best case scenario, its highly unlikely that its going to be a positive attribute of a resume. Once again, I said it before and I'll say it again, an RA position is about as worthless as studying abroad during a 1L summer. If it were me, I'd be pushing hard for a real summer job. With the state of biglaw, any 1L that thinks that biglaw is a given (assuming non HYS), is delusional. You have to be prepared for the strong possibility that biglaw won't be an option. If biglaw is not an option and you're hunting smaller employers for your 2L summer, you're gonna want a real job on your resume during your 1L summer (not a position where you hunted obscure research points for a law review article that no one is ever going to read anyway).

How are RAs a strike against you? Obviously a summer job is way better, but no one is going to look at an RA on a resume and think "better not hire this guy."