Top Law Schools

delete

Instead of agonizing over it, just do it. Being an associate ed is not that much work, just steer clear of board. That way you don't have to worry about it hurting you.

T8 really? Just say you go to UVA.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a second semester 1L at the top of my class at a T8. I already secured a 1L SA at a V5 - one of those that turns into a 2L SA, then a job as long as you don't do anything ridiculous.

The firm doesn't care about LR at this point, but I'm also considering going for a 2L position/eventual job at one of the silicon valley tech companies. Do I need to do law review to be competitive for those or can my 1L SA distinguish me enough?

Also, is it true that skipping a journal basically disqualifies you from the more prestigious clerkships even if you have the other bells and whistles on your resume?

Finally, does anyone enjoy law review? It sounds like a huge pain in the ass. I actually love legal writing but I hate law school in general and want to do as little as possible at this point. I think I would grade-on, but you still have to participate in the write-on comp to grade-on and I'm just over doing unnecessary law school shit at this point.

I don't think your 1L SA will distinguish you as much as you might think, especially since your SA probably came after stellar 1st semester grades, but nothing after that. For example, someone with: a prestigious 1L SA, stellar 1st semester grades, solid 2nd semester grades, no LR versus someone with: run of the mill 1L position, probably unpaid, stellar 1st and semester grades, law review. The latter person is much more desirable. It would be a mistake to put too much weight on a 1L SA.

You don't *need* LR to be competitive for a position at one of the SV tech companies or a prestigious clerkship, but like anything else, it's another credential that is helpful to have and obviously puts you at a disadvantage compared to people who are on LR. Note, though, the farther you go down in school rankings, generally speaking, the more important that LR is for you. Someone from Stanford might be able to get a feeder clerkship without law review on the basis of strong credentials, but someone at a "T8" might not be able to (or still might be able to, i'm not familiar with your school's clerkship placement). I would also do some research because I don't know how many SV tech companies take 2Ls.

Some people like law review, most people tolerate it because it is definitely worth it as a credential on your resume. The credential at most schools far outweighs any dislike that someone might have for LR.

You should rest up after you are done with 1L spring semester finals and take the competition regardless. Most 1Ls are pretty burnt out and over law school related stuff at this point, but you should still push through the writing competition.

In conclusion: your prestigious 1L SA is far from a substitute for law review. The tone of your post makes me think that you are seriously overthinking the value of a 1L SA as a credential. I would also take care and research the viability of your path to work at a SV tech company as a 2L, and I would absolutely take the writing competition. Also: "T8" isn't a thing.

delete

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the thoughtful response ph - sorry I said T8, just trying to stay a little anonymous since I just met my entire 1L SA class and don't want my firm knowing that I'm already looking for an exit before I've even started.

I wasn't sure about law school so I took a full-ride, if I can't go direct to a cushy in-house position in silicon valley I'm thinking about bailing on the entire lawyering thing, maybe just take the 1L and 2L SA money and call it a day, and go straight to a normal/lifestyle job.

Why would you possibly think that a cushy in house position in Silicon Valley is even a viable option for someone straight out of law school?

You should definitely, definitely do law review. Definitely.

I really enjoyed it. I mean, some of the work sucked but I never wished I hadn't done it. I made great friends, learned a ton, got to publish, etc. And t's not that hard to do very little if you want to. I did more than required (sought position etc) and still had a good experience.

Also, for better or worse, people will generally assume that if you didn't do law review it's because you couldn't do law review. You can say otherwise but people will assume you're making excuses. You can cite your GPA but then it looks like you care too much.

Of course, it's far from the end of the world if people think you couldn't get on law review. Plenty of really great smart people don't make it. It could have easily been me and there's nothing magical about me compared to people that didn't. But the world isn't fair and people often suck.

So do it. You'll be glad you did, even if you drop out and land a great in house gig at a bar in the Panama City.

1L SAs aren't really prestigious. Nobody is really going to care that you are a 1L SA and prefer you over someone else because you have it. Moreover, a 1L SA definitely isn't something that tech companies or judges are going to value highly. My suspicion is that LR won't be much of a big deal for tech companies either (they are going to care more about your experience far more than whether you were on LR). But LR is going to be a big deal for many judges.

The bottom line is that it may help a bit for tech companies (since their in-house lawyers may value LR when hiring even if it isn't very high on their list) and for judges that value it, nothing can replace it. If you want to clerk, you should do LR. If all you want to do is eventually go in-house for a tech company, you can probably get away with not doing LR (but it could help and I would personally take the safer route and just do it in case it eventually helps you a bit).

delete

Anonymous User wrote:

echooo23 wrote:Why would you possibly think that a cushy in house position in Silicon Valley is even a viable option for someone straight out of law school?

Well I have an MBA and previous start-up experience in Silicon Valley with a decent network, I'm tentatively targeting the HP program that hires directly from law school.

I will add that there are a handful of companies that do hire in-house counsel right out of law school, but they are fairly rare (there are also companies that will hire you for the summer and essentially give you an informal offer to return after you work in biglaw for a few years).

That said these positions are pretty rare and nothing to bank on (though OP does seem to be hedging his/her bets with biglaw which is smart).

lol @t8 - who says t8? - It's called The University of Virginia School of Law bro way to broadcast it - t14, t10, t6, HYS all legit - if you say t8 we know what's up

Anonymous User wrote:

echooo23 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the thoughtful response ph - sorry I said T8, just trying to stay a little anonymous since I just met my entire 1L SA class and don't want my firm knowing that I'm already looking for an exit before I've even started.

I wasn't sure about law school so I took a full-ride, if I can't go direct to a cushy in-house position in silicon valley I'm thinking about bailing on the entire lawyering thing, maybe just take the 1L and 2L SA money and call it a day, and go straight to a normal/lifestyle job.

Why would you possibly think that a cushy in house position in Silicon Valley is even a viable option for someone straight out of law school?

Well I have an MBA and previous start-up experience in Silicon Valley with a decent network, I'm tentatively targeting the HP program that hires directly from law school.

...and yet you chose to go to a T8 and work at a V5.

You deserve whatever you get.

Anonymous User wrote:

echooo23 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the thoughtful response ph - sorry I said T8, just trying to stay a little anonymous since I just met my entire 1L SA class and don't want my firm knowing that I'm already looking for an exit before I've even started.

I wasn't sure about law school so I took a full-ride, if I can't go direct to a cushy in-house position in silicon valley I'm thinking about bailing on the entire lawyering thing, maybe just take the 1L and 2L SA money and call it a day, and go straight to a normal/lifestyle job.

Why would you possibly think that a cushy in house position in Silicon Valley is even a viable option for someone straight out of law school?

Well I have an MBA and previous start-up experience in Silicon Valley with a decent network, I'm tentatively targeting the HP program that hires directly from law school.

While these jobs aren't super abundant, they aren't mythical like some people here are claiming. For someone with your grades and w/e it's a viable option. You still might want to do a 2-4 stint in a SV firm to get some experience. But you can figure that out later.

If you want to go in house real fast why do you want a prefstigious clerkship?

If you really want to clerk, you should do a journal. And if you do a journal LR is the best.

But if you just wanna clerk for shits and giggles, fuck that noise. It sounds like you want to go transactional. Clerking ain't worth it for that.

Anonymous User wrote:1L SAs aren't really prestigious. Nobody is really going to care that you are a 1L SA and prefer you over someone else because you have it. Moreover, a 1L SA definitely isn't something that tech companies or judges are going to value highly. My suspicion is that LR won't be much of a big deal for tech companies either (they are going to care more about your experience far more than whether you were on LR). But LR is going to be a big deal for many judges.

A 1L SA at a V5 is pretty prestigious broseph.

UVA had its write-on competition last month, so that makes the T8 distinction all the more puzzling.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:1L SAs aren't really prestigious. Nobody is really going to care that you are a 1L SA and prefer you over someone else because you have it. Moreover, a 1L SA definitely isn't something that tech companies or judges are going to value highly. My suspicion is that LR won't be much of a big deal for tech companies either (they are going to care more about your experience far more than whether you were on LR). But LR is going to be a big deal for many judges.

A 1L SA at a V5 is pretty prestigious broseph.

V4 maybe

T8??? Seriously?

patogordo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:1L SAs aren't really prestigious. Nobody is really going to care that you are a 1L SA and prefer you over someone else because you have it. Moreover, a 1L SA definitely isn't something that tech companies or judges are going to value highly. My suspicion is that LR won't be much of a big deal for tech companies either (they are going to care more about your experience far more than whether you were on LR). But LR is going to be a big deal for many judges.

A 1L SA at a V5 is pretty prestigious broseph.

V4 maybe

Skadden is still pretty prestigious

KaNa1986 wrote:

patogordo wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:1L SAs aren't really prestigious. Nobody is really going to care that you are a 1L SA and prefer you over someone else because you have it. Moreover, a 1L SA definitely isn't something that tech companies or judges are going to value highly. My suspicion is that LR won't be much of a big deal for tech companies either (they are going to care more about your experience far more than whether you were on LR). But LR is going to be a big deal for many judges.

A 1L SA at a V5 is pretty prestigious broseph.

V4 maybe

Skadden is still pretty prestigious

Last I checked, Skadden is V4. DPW is getting left out in the rain

OP - you certainly have a bizarre narrative. Probably one of the most bizarre I've seen.. still, it sounds to me like since you have a full ride and you're doing well, it's worth it to stick out law school, get the extra filter names on your resume, lateral or bid heavy at OCI this fall for SF/SV firms like MoFo and Wilson Sonsini, and then once you're out there network with your credentials and see where you can land. To almost anyone, I'd say, don't go to law school or join a firm if you don't want to practice law/be an attorney.. but maybe you're in a unique position where you could swing a desirable JD-advantage gig..

That being said, the suggestion that you would take money from two summers of SA and drop out almost makes me want to call flame, except there's no identifiable reason for this flame. Although you do realize how ridiculous that sounds since getting paid only $60K for two years of apparent misery in law school and no degree to show for it, after having an MBA, is a total bum deal?

KaNa1986 wrote:

patogordo wrote: V4 maybe

Skadden is still pretty prestigious

it's actually v2. s&c is shit tier.

Anonymous User wrote:1L SAs aren't really prestigious. Nobody is really going to care that you are a 1L SA and prefer you over someone else because you have it. Moreover, a 1L SA definitely isn't something that tech companies or judges are going to value highly. My suspicion is that LR won't be much of a big deal for tech companies either (they are going to care more about your experience far more than whether you were on LR). But LR is going to be a big deal for many judges.

also just to address this --

Yeah, OP came off rather entitled, and I see how a federal judge wouldn't be impressed by a 1L SA - but still, it seems disingenuous to say a V5 1L SA "isn't really prestigious". For that to be true, you'd have to also assume that a 2L SA or starting associate position with a V5 is not "prestigious." And as ridiculous or unbecoming as it may sound, to much of the legal and financial industry, and especially among law students and young associates, V5 remains a gold standard of "prestige" for a corporate attorney. Obviously it's not SCOTUS or a T14 tenure track professorship but considering there are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of current law students and recent grads who want or recently wanted to work at one of those firms and represent clients of the caliber those firms can attract, there's still definitely an undeniable "prestige" associated with them by any reasonable metric. And to me and most law students I know, getting a gig at one as a 1L is quite an accomplishment.

Anonymous User wrote: I think I would grade-on, but you still have to participate in the write-on comp to grade-on and I'm just over doing unnecessary...

Don't think OP goes to UVA for what it's worth; being that write on already happened.

jbagelboy wrote:also just to address this --

Yeah, OP came off rather entitled, and I see how a federal judge wouldn't be impressed by a 1L SA - but still, it seems disingenuous to say a V5 1L SA "isn't really prestigious". For that to be true, you'd have to also assume that a 2L SA or starting associate position with a V5 is not "prestigious." And as ridiculous or unbecoming as it may sound, to much of the legal and financial industry, and especially among law students and young associates, V5 remains a gold standard of "prestige" for a corporate attorney. Obviously it's not SCOTUS or a T14 tenure track professorship but considering there are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of current law students and recent grads who want or recently wanted to work at one of those firms and represent clients of the caliber those firms can attract, there's still definitely an undeniable "prestige" associated with them by any reasonable metric. And to me and most law students I know, getting a gig at one as a 1L is quite an accomplishment.

As the anon you quoted, let me be clearer since prestigious was not the right word: a 1L SA is not going to make you a more desirable candidate to hire.

Anonymous User wrote:

jbagelboy wrote:also just to address this --

Yeah, OP came off rather entitled, and I see how a federal judge wouldn't be impressed by a 1L SA - but still, it seems disingenuous to say a V5 1L SA "isn't really prestigious". For that to be true, you'd have to also assume that a 2L SA or starting associate position with a V5 is not "prestigious." And as ridiculous or unbecoming as it may sound, to much of the legal and financial industry, and especially among law students and young associates, V5 remains a gold standard of "prestige" for a corporate attorney. Obviously it's not SCOTUS or a T14 tenure track professorship but considering there are hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of current law students and recent grads who want or recently wanted to work at one of those firms and represent clients of the caliber those firms can attract, there's still definitely an undeniable "prestige" associated with them by any reasonable metric. And to me and most law students I know, getting a gig at one as a 1L is quite an accomplishment.

As the anon you quoted, let me be clearer since prestigious was not the right word: a 1L SA is not going to make you a more desirable candidate to hire.

For a clerkship? Maybe not.

For a private sector job? Of course it would be provided you land an offer.

Anonymous User wrote:For a clerkship? Maybe not.

For a private sector job? Of course it would be provided you land an offer.

Yes but that isn't because of the SA itself.