NYC Apartment Hunt Forum

[Sgtpeppernyc]

So myself and my roommate are moving to NYC at the end of the summer to start at NYC biglaw firms. I just spoke with an agent that said you need either a guarantor that makes 80x rent or show on the previous year's tax return that you make 40x.

This seems strange, that even if I have a letter from the firm saying I'll be making biglaw money, that I wouldn't be able to get an apt. Does anyone have experience with this?

[alphagamma]

I attended a webinar put on by Cooper & Cooper (a brokerage firm) specifically for law students trying to get housing in NYC, and they implied that a letter from a firm with a start date and salary is usually enough. Guarantors are only needed for bad credit and/or low salaries.

I'd appreciate some actual stories from graduates in past years as well, though.

[aces]

This is not a hard and fast rule. If you have good credit, many landlords will be satisfied with a letter from your firm with an expected start date and salary. You'll still have to pay first months' rent + security deposit (usually one months' rent) + broker's fee (usually one months' rent) ahead of time, but if you saved your SA money (or your firm gives you a salary advance), that shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you have a late start date or the landlord is particularly persnickety, it's possible that they'll ask you to pay another month or two upfront, but that's usually the worst of it. I just signed a lease with my significant other starting in May, and even though my start date is October and my SO's salary wouldn't ordinarily pass the 40x rule on her own, we didn't have any trouble (granted, we did look in the outer boroughs at non-luxury apartments).

Also: the New York real estate market moves quickly. If you're looking now, it might be too early to find an apartment available in September/October.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

Not really looking now, just trying to get the lay of the land so I know what to expect.

I was going to say, it seems unrealistic to require someone to have an ongoing salary considering how many professionals move to NYC annually (and how my and my roommate's combined salary will be $300k ... ). I went into it expecting to pay 2 months' rent + broker's fee.

[aces]

One more thing worth mentioning: (a) having a good credit score and (b) having a good amount of money in the bank (enough to easily cover a couple months' worth of rent) will help immensely with assuaging any landlord concerns.

Also, if you think this might end up being an issue, I would raise it before you submit an application by asking the landlord informally if the fact that both of you are just starting your jobs would be a problem. It sucks to find out after you spend a bunch of time filling out an application and paying what can be a hefty application/credit check fee that the landlord is strict about stuff like this.

[JenDarby]

Landlords will often be flexible allowing for a larger security deposit or extra months rent paid if for some reason your letter is not sufficient.

If you both have biglaw you should seriously consider just going through a broker. I've used citihabitats and have always had a great experience. If you end up in a coop they will work with the board and landlord and hold your hand through the entire approval process. The process will be a lot easier in general since they often have relationships with landlords and buildings.

For perspective I found my current apartment after searching for months on street easy, and even though all the random broker did was let me in the door, I still had to pay her 1 months rent (which I bargained down from 15% of the total 2 year lease total on a three bedroom lol).

[AP-375]

I attended a webinar put on by Cooper & Cooper (a brokerage firm) specifically for law students trying to get housing in NYC, and they implied that a letter from a firm with a start date and salary is usually enough. Guarantors are only needed for bad credit and/or low salaries.

I'd appreciate some actual stories from graduates in past years as well, though.

Do you know if there is anything from this webinar online? Or is this info anywhere else on their website?
Thanks!

[alphagamma]

I attended a webinar put on by Cooper & Cooper (a brokerage firm) specifically for law students trying to get housing in NYC, and they implied that a letter from a firm with a start date and salary is usually enough. Guarantors are only needed for bad credit and/or low salaries.

I'd appreciate some actual stories from graduates in past years as well, though.

Do you know if there is anything from this webinar online? Or is this info anywhere else on their website?
Thanks!

Unfortunately, no. Everything was temporarily streamed via internet and phone. You might be able to contact them and ask? Maybe they'll give another one.

[AP-375]

I attended a webinar put on by Cooper & Cooper (a brokerage firm) specifically for law students trying to get housing in NYC, and they implied that a letter from a firm with a start date and salary is usually enough. Guarantors are only needed for bad credit and/or low salaries.

I'd appreciate some actual stories from graduates in past years as well, though.

Do you know if there is anything from this webinar online? Or is this info anywhere else on their website?
Thanks!

Unfortunately, no. Everything was temporarily streamed via internet and phone. You might be able to contact them and ask? Maybe they'll give another one.

Yeah thanks. Going off of TLS recommendations, they seem like the way to go, so I might as well get in touch with them a little early and ask for the info.
Thanks!

[johnB86]

First year big law associate here. I used Cooper and Cooper in my apartment search in September 2013 and it was great--the Yelp reviews speak for themselves so I won't plug here.

In short: the financials needed will depend on your credit history. But, with an offer letter showing a starting salary of $160k and enough money in the bank to pay first month's rent, security deposit, and broker's fee, you should be fine with a place up to $3k or so. Moreover, even with a limited credit history, a lot of management companies will allow you to post extra security instead of having a guarantor. This is important to consider as a lot of people blow their summer associate money without considering that it could cost upwards of $10k to just get keys to your apt in NYC.

I hope this helps and I am happy to answer any additional questions about my apartment search. When I moved to NYC last year I was also coordinating my GF's move from out west simultaneously, so I was pretty anxious about the whole thing and meticulous when it came to details and logistics. Happy to help the next generation of first years navigate the big move.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

Update: just talked to Cooper & Cooper (thanks for that recommendation). They said I absolutely will not need to put up more than 2 months rent + brokers fee. Just never talk to Citi Habitats ... they're absolute garbage.

[JenDarby]

Update: just talked to Cooper & Cooper (thanks for that recommendation). They said I absolutely will not need to put up more than 2 months rent + brokers fee. Just never talk to Citi Habitats ... they're absolute garbage.

So you didn't like one broker at citi habitats...

I've lived as a student in NYC for three years and I've found CH to have better listings and access than Cooper and I've never had a bad experience with any brokers there. Just in case anyone else reads this, don't write off citihabitats on the basis of this person who's never even used a broker in the city to find an apt before.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

Update: just talked to Cooper & Cooper (thanks for that recommendation). They said I absolutely will not need to put up more than 2 months rent + brokers fee. Just never talk to Citi Habitats ... they're absolute garbage.

So you didn't like one broker at citi habitats...

I've lived as a student in NYC for three years and I've found CH to have better listings and access than Cooper and I've never had a bad experience with any brokers there. Just in case anyone else reads this, don't write off citihabitats on the basis of this person who's never even used a broker in the city to find an apt before.

Not in the mood to get into an argument over the merits of a broker, but this is the second CH broker I've spoken with because the first one was even more useless than this one.

[JenDarby]

Update: just talked to Cooper & Cooper (thanks for that recommendation). They said I absolutely will not need to put up more than 2 months rent + brokers fee. Just never talk to Citi Habitats ... they're absolute garbage.

So you didn't like one broker at citi habitats...

I've lived as a student in NYC for three years and I've found CH to have better listings and access than Cooper and I've never had a bad experience with any brokers there. Just in case anyone else reads this, don't write off citihabitats on the basis of this person who's never even used a broker in the city to find an apt before.

Not in the mood to get into an argument over the merits of a broker, but this is the second CH broker I've spoken with because the first one was even more useless than this one.

Well that's a bummer you had a bad experience. I've successfully found three awesome apartments with CH and most my friends here used CH as well.

I'm just providing a counter to your review for others.

[keg411]

Update: just talked to Cooper & Cooper (thanks for that recommendation). They said I absolutely will not need to put up more than 2 months rent + brokers fee. Just never talk to Citi Habitats ... they're absolute garbage.

So you didn't like one broker at citi habitats...

I've lived as a student in NYC for three years and I've found CH to have better listings and access than Cooper and I've never had a bad experience with any brokers there. Just in case anyone else reads this, don't write off citihabitats on the basis of this person who's never even used a broker in the city to find an apt before.

FWIW, JenDarby is completely right on this point. CityHabitats is pretty much known to have the most comprehensive listings and the best access to apartments of the brokers in the city, which is why a lot of people use and like them. And I say that as someone who used C&C. The biggest problem with CH is that their fees are higher for the most part. The best thing to do is to figure out which brokers to ask for based on yelp or personal recommendations no matter who you're using.

Although the real is street easy "no fee" listings on your own (and only the "no fee" listings), but that's more something to use once you're already in the city.

[Anonymous User]

What sort of help are your guys' firms giving you with broker's fees? Is it something you are supposed to deal with out of your advance or do they reimburse/pay for it? And if they do cover the fees, do you have to use certain brokers?

Sorry if these are obvious or obnoxious, just trying to figure out what to expect when I start looking.

[johnB86]

What sort of help are your guys' firms giving you with broker's fees? Is it something you are supposed to deal with out of your advance or do they reimburse/pay for it? And if they do cover the fees, do you have to use certain brokers?

Sorry if these are obvious or obnoxious, just trying to figure out what to expect when I start looking.

Not at all obvious or obnoxious questions.

My understanding is that, while some firms might have relationships with brokers and get some sort of discount or pay for some costs, the majority of firms do not. Above the Law has a chart of first year associate advances, bar stipend, bonuses, etc. (albeit from 2008) that might be helpful in at least giving you a lay of the land. Google "Above the Law Associate Life Survey Everything else you always wanted to know"

If your firm pays moving expenses, inquire as to whether a broker fee is included. My guess would be that it is not. These types of expenses are a large reason why advances are given at all.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

Yeah, my firm covers "expenses for moving your possessions" or something similarly worded - it seems they are specifically avoiding people thinking they cover brokers' fees.

[anon919]

HELPFUL INFO FOR NYC SUMMER ASSOCIATES:

Brooklyn Law School owns a Hi-rise in Brooklyn Heights [a very expensive area that is very close to Manhattan]. Many of the students sublet their apartments for the summer. It's one of the best deals you'll probably find because all the paper work is handled by the school. You don't have to deal with the agents and fees.

The students post the sublets on craigslist. I stayed in one last year and it was hands down the best deal I was able to find. Smooth process that took a week to complete. 15 minute commute to my summer associate gig. Nightlife in Brooklyn Heights was decent; restaurants were a hit and 5 minute train to Manhattan was awesome.

EDIT: Case in point (sweet deal): - --LinkRemoved--

[Anonymous User]

My NYC firm gave me like 3 or 4k for a broker's fee for the first year. Taxable income obviously, but still pretty sweet.

[Anonymous User]

For people moving to NYC in the fall, you might be able to save yourself the brokers fee by looking for an apartment on your own (streeteasy, citihabits free listing, craigslist (search by no-fee or owner only), etc.). Yes, it takes ALOT more time and work - so if you don't want to do that then pay for a broker. All of my friends in NY find their apartments on their own. Obviously, this is easiest if you're looking for a luxury building (doorman, gym, amenities) - most luxury buildings have their own websites and leasing offices. If you go to the leasing ofice they might give you a month free (which is what they will give to a no-fee broker).

If you have time then look on your own and save the money! Also, some firms pay for you to go to your city and look around for a place. If you can take a week to go to NY/DC/Houston/wherever and seriously look around it'll be better in the long run.

[piccolittle]

Is anyone coming in the fall who needs a roommate? I'm already in the city and planning to start looking for apartments around late July/early August. PM me if you're interested!

[WhirledWorld]

Anyone have any idea on how to find a place in Hoboken? I know there's Craigslist but I have no idea how to check availability in all the towers.

[SemperLegal]

Anyone have any idea on how to find a place in Hoboken? I know there's Craigslist but I have no idea how to check availability in all the towers.

Stevens College has a sublease board. Other than that, I just trolled craiglist for about three weeks until i (hopefully) found a place.

[prs362]

For people with start dates in late September/early October, when are you planning to look for a place? I know nothing living in NY, but I've heard that places fly off the market in the fall. I'm tentatively planning on looking in mid August with hopes of moving in mid September.