3L BigLaw Hiring Forum

[lawdude1251]

Can anyone offer me any sort of tips or insights with regards to 3L hiring by biglaw firms.

I am a 2L at a top 20 school with a GPA around 3.5. Spent 1L summer in house at a bay area tech company and am spending my 2L summer in government.

I know it is early to be thinking about this but I just wanted to get some perspective on firms that hire 3L's and when I should start applying.

Thanks in advance.

[goldeneye]

your rank is more important than your GPA. common consensus is that there is not much 3L big law hiring, or that there has not been in the past.

[thesealocust]

The odds of you getting a biglaw gig are very close to zero. Only a tiny number of 3Ls get big firm jobs, and a sizeable portion of that number are switching firms/regions from what they did 2L summer rather than applying cold.

NALP publishes statistics, it's something absurd like ~5,000 2L summer associates nation wide but then like 100 3Ls hired directly into big firm jobs (some number, possibly a large majority, having done a 2L firm summer prior).

Anyway, the perspective is: don't count on it, but of course there's no harm in applying. Just realize it's something that might be nice and shouldn't be the focus of your job hunt given the long odds.

[TTRansfer]

The odds of you getting a biglaw gig are very close to zero. Only a tiny number of 3Ls get big firm jobs, and a sizeable portion of that number are switching firms/regions from what they did 2L summer rather than applying cold.

NALP publishes statistics, it's something absurd like ~5,000 2L summer associates nation wide but then like 100 3Ls hired directly into big firm jobs (some number, possibly a large majority, having done a 2L firm summer prior).

Anyway, the perspective is: don't count on it, but of course there's no harm in applying. Just realize it's something that might be nice and shouldn't be the focus of your job hunt given the long odds.

Shit, even switching regions is hard. I'll be at a regional office of a big law firm and it was impossible for me to switch out with another firm in another region. Even with two summer associates and decent grades.

3L big law hiring is almost non-existent.

[rad lulz]

.

[OutCold]

I switched firms as a 3L. I have some posts about 3L recruiting somewhere in my post history. As the others have mentioned, the odds of landing biglaw as a 3L without already having been an SA are basically zero. The first question I got from every single interviewer, and sometimes from the recruiting department before I even went into an interview, was whether or not I got an offer from my SA.

[Anonymous User]

Your best hope now is gunning for a clerkship. The lack of SA will still come up, but it won't be as big of a deal as it would be if you had an SA and got no-offered.

[Anonymous User]

After going through 3L OCI, my experience is that there is next to no 3L biglaw hiring. Even those I knew with an SA and offer were not able to switch firms through the process. My sample of people is small and anecdotal of course, but I don't personally know anyone who got an offer out of 3L OCI.

[rad lulz]

.

[TTRansfer]

The first question I got from every single interviewer, and sometimes from the recruiting department before I even went into an interview, was whether or not I got an offer from my SA.

Same.

[Anonymous User]

Network your way into big law. Set info meetings. That is the only way.

I know 3 people in my school that got biglaw (a t7) and it was all b/c of the fact that they knew someone.

[joetheplumber]

Well this kinda sucks. Why don't firms like hiring 3Ls. Makes no sense especially when you demonstrate yourself your 2nd year and get higher grades in REAL courses too.

[dead head]

Well this kinda sucks. Why don't firms like hiring 3Ls. Makes no sense especially when you demonstrate yourself your 2nd year and get higher grades in REAL courses too.

You demonstrate yourself in 1L where there is a hard curve and everyone takes the same courses. In upper years you can take easy courses with relaxed curves full of dumb kids. Plus, in 3L recruiting the firms will not have a chance to no-offer or cold-offer you if they don't like what they see after 10 or so weeks.

[Dafaq]

Not hiring 3Ls has never made sense to me. Cannot fathom the reasoning, or why that attitude is as universal as it is.

[TTRansfer]

Not hiring 3Ls has never made sense to me. Cannot fathom the reasoning, or why that attitude is as universal as it is.

It makes sense.

The firm didn't have a chance to review their work like it would have had during a summer associateship. You're going to take a chance on giving someone a high five to six figure job based on a couple of interviews without knowing about their work product or how well they get along when they aren't in an interview and trying to impress?

I mean, I wish that they hired more, but it certainly makes sense. I'd likely be cautious as well if I were in their shoes.

[Dafaq]

Not hiring 3Ls has never made sense to me. Cannot fathom the reasoning, or why that attitude is as universal as it is.

It makes sense.

The firm didn't have a chance to review their work like it would have had during a summer associateship. You're going to take a chance on giving someone a high five to six figure job based on a couple of interviews without knowing about their work product or how well they get along when they aren't in an interview and trying to impress?

I mean, I wish that they hired more, but it certainly makes sense. I'd likely be cautious as well if I were in their shoes.

Sadly enough your point is well taken. I just have a lot of empathy for the couple 3Ls I know who are despondent.

It would be an entirely new undertaking for a firm to bring on a 3L as an SA with the understanding that after the SA they might/or might not be hired. That procedure could have an upside for the firm, but yeah, it would never catch on.

[TTRansfer]

Not hiring 3Ls has never made sense to me. Cannot fathom the reasoning, or why that attitude is as universal as it is.

It makes sense.

The firm didn't have a chance to review their work like it would have had during a summer associateship. You're going to take a chance on giving someone a high five to six figure job based on a couple of interviews without knowing about their work product or how well they get along when they aren't in an interview and trying to impress?

I mean, I wish that they hired more, but it certainly makes sense. I'd likely be cautious as well if I were in their shoes.

Sadly enough your point is well taken. I just have a lot of empathy for the couple 3Ls I know who are despondent.

It would be an entirely new undertaking for a firm to bring on a 3L as an SA with the understanding that after the SA they might/or might not be hired. That procedure could have an upside for the firm, but yeah, it would never catch on.

Oh, I do, too. A number of my friends are in the same boat and it sucks ass. But I think it's at least an understandable position by the firms.

I would love to see some more firms do a 3L SA thing, but many already do with temporary positions that may lead to full time offers.

[kalvano]

It's not so much that the firm has to take a chance on someone they haven't had a chance to evaluate, it's more that firms have a set hiring model. They know about how many SA's will accept their offer, and they have everything planned out pretty well. It's rare that they have a need their SA class can't fulfill. So a lot of it is simply there aren't many positions available.

[rad lulz]

It's not so much that the firm has to take a chance on someone they haven't had a chance to evaluate, it's more that firms have a set hiring model. They know about how many SA's will accept their offer, and they have everything planned out pretty well. It's rare that they have a need their SA class can't fulfill. So a lot of it is simply there aren't many positions available.

People talk about "needing time to evaluate" and this is part of it

Although the better (but less compelling) explanation is "because all of our peer firms do 2L recruiting"

[Anonymous User]

Is IP hiring the exception? I know loads of ppl with offers during their 3L year for IP.
If yes, does IP hiring skewed the real number of 3L hiring?

[Anonymous User]

Your best hope now is gunning for a clerkship. The lack of SA will still come up, but it won't be as big of a deal as it would be if you had an SA and got no-offered.

Doing a clerkship definitely doesn't mean OP will get biglaw. I spoke to a recruiter in Chicago, and she said that large firms aren't hiring people after clerkships here. There are obvious exceptions to this, though (e.g. if you already got an offer via 2L SA, SCOTUS clerkship, etc.). NYC is probably easier after a clerkship, but still far from a sure thing. OP isn't doing a 2L SA, and most of the super prestigious clerkships that would most likely lead to biglaw aren't going to happen with a 3.5 from a t20 school. To be honest, any Art. III clerkship is unlikely with a 3.5 from a t20 absent some other awesome qualifications (e.g. exec board on law review and published).

[rad lulz]

Your best hope now is gunning for a clerkship. The lack of SA will still come up, but it won't be as big of a deal as it would be if you had an SA and got no-offered.

Doing a clerkship definitely doesn't mean OP will get biglaw. I spoke to a recruiter in Chicago, and she said that large firms aren't hiring people after clerkships here. There are obvious exceptions to this, though (e.g. if you already got an offer via 2L SA, SCOTUS clerkship, etc.). NYC is probably easier after a clerkship, but still far from a sure thing. OP isn't doing a 2L SA, and most of the super prestigious clerkships that would most likely lead to biglaw aren't going to happen with a 3.5 from a t20 school. To be honest, any Art. III clerkship is unlikely with a 3.5 from a t20 absent some other awesome qualifications (e.g. exec board on law review and published).

Supports what I've been hearing about the clerkship market not being robust

Especially w no previous firm experience

May help w govt if he can score a miracle AIII

[TTRansfer]

Your best hope now is gunning for a clerkship. The lack of SA will still come up, but it won't be as big of a deal as it would be if you had an SA and got no-offered.

Doing a clerkship definitely doesn't mean OP will get biglaw. I spoke to a recruiter in Chicago, and she said that large firms aren't hiring people after clerkships here. There are obvious exceptions to this, though (e.g. if you already got an offer via 2L SA, SCOTUS clerkship, etc.). NYC is probably easier after a clerkship, but still far from a sure thing. OP isn't doing a 2L SA, and most of the super prestigious clerkships that would most likely lead to biglaw aren't going to happen with a 3.5 from a t20 school. To be honest, any Art. III clerkship is unlikely with a 3.5 from a t20 absent some other awesome qualifications (e.g. exec board on law review and published).

Supports what I've been hearing about the clerkship market not being robust

Especially w no previous firm experience

May help w govt if he can score a miracle AIII

I'm actually curious what the market would be for a biglaw associate -> clerkship -> back to biglaw. I wouldn't mind going that route if I could go and clerk some place closer to where I want to end up.

[Old Gregg]

Love that OP felt the need to post this on xo because he thought that the responses would somehow be different.

[downinDtown]

Can anyone offer me any sort of tips or insights with regards to 3L hiring by biglaw firms.

I am a 2L at a top 20 school with a GPA around 3.5. Spent 1L summer in house at a bay area tech company and am spending my 2L summer in government.

I know it is early to be thinking about this but I just wanted to get some perspective on firms that hire 3L's and when I should start applying.

Thanks in advance.

As I shared over here: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p7619010, 3L's should worry more about the increase in BigLaw Firings.